Thank you so much Chris & Victor. You have made my day & done my head in!

Love coming @ ya from the UK.

I wanted to add that a good site to see how the UFO Gospel has invaded the Bible is alienresistance.org. Joe Jordan and Guy Malone have excellent presentations with all sorts of info. on this stuff, including channeled messages. Looks like a big hoax is coming. Good luck in Africa. God bless.

*[[1Co 15:12-22]] NET* Now if Christ is being preached as raised from the dead, how can some of you say there is no resurrection of the dead? But if there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, then our preaching is futile and your faith is empty. Also, we are found to be false witnesses about God, because we have testified against God that he raised Christ from the dead, when in reality he did not raise him, if indeed the dead are not raised. For if the dead are not raised, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, your faith is useless; you are still in your sins. Furthermore, those who have fallen asleep in Christ have also perished. For if only in this life we have hope in Christ, we should be pitied more than anyone. But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead also came through a man. For just as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all will be made alive.

To be resurrected means:
1. to raise from the dead; bring to life again.

to be dead means:
1. no longer living; deprived of life: dead people; dead flowers; dead animals.

to be resurrected is to be brought to life, take away the greek philosophy of immortal souls that God cannot, or will not destroy, you have a resurrection that is fitting of God, giver of life, who raises the dead, some into life, some into judgment which leads to destruction.

Like I say Mr White, I have the utmost respect for you, I would beg you to look into conditionalism, Perhaps have a look at Edward Fudge’s book: The Fire that Consumes.

Thanks in advance!

Bless you!

/Greetings from Sweden

Unfortunately its not so simple:

Joh 14:2 In My Father’s house are many mansions; if it were not so, I would have told you. I go to prepare a place for you.
Joh 14:3 And if I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself; that where I am, there you may be also.

And this happens at the rapture:

1Th 4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first.
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

None of this has happened yet. But this does not mean that Jesus isnt with the thief on the cross in paradise or Paul or anyone else who is dead “in christ” He is with them, but the “place” is not ready yet, trust me, you will know when it is.

It’s gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There’s nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the Chris down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things he never had

The wild dogs cry out in the night
As they grow restless longing for some solitary company
Chris knows that he must do what’s right
As sure as Kilimanjaro rises like Olympus above the Serangetti
Chris seeks to cure what’s deep inside, frightened of this thing that I’ve become

It’s gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There’s nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the Chris down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things he never had

Hurry boy, she’s waiting there for you

It’s gonna take a lot to drag me away from you
There’s nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do
I bless the rains down in Africa, I passed some rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa, I passed some rains down in Africa
I bless the rains down in Africa
Gonna take some time to do the things we never had

Hope you have a great holidays. God Bless!

Greetings Greg

I would show you:
1 Kings 17:10-Chapter. The woman feared the Lord
Acts 10- Cornelius was NOT jewish, but feared the Lord, and gave alms. The Lord remembered him and sent Peter his way.

These are just a few that I have wrote down since I listened to this podcast. Not that non of these people were saved, Jewish, or knew of Christ, but they searched for Truth/Lord (I would argue that they are one in the same).

”For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.”

A scourge was what was used to remove the flesh and expose the bone. God’s purpose is much larger than we tend think about, He has eternity in mind.
We are supposed to be being conformed to the image of Christ. This involves the breaking of the outer man and the release of the inner man. If He loves us then He will chasten and scourge us.

Watchman Nee’s book ‘The breaking of the outer man and the release of the Spirit’ really helped me in embracing times of suffering.

If God is soveign which He is then He allows us to suffer.
He has a purpose in all things bless His Name.

We must decrease, He must increase!

Of course God loves us. This is a question that philosophers like C.S. Lewis have answered well. Here is a link you should check out: https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/test/

Thank you,

Jessica

The Rabbis always opposed conversion for alterior motives.
This is based on the Jewish idea that one need not be Jewish in order to have an eternal soul, merit the world to come, etc. Judaism, out of all the monotheistic religions, is the only one which is not exclusive. By contrast, Catholicism inists that the only way one can be saved is through Jesus, and in Islam the only way one comes to the world to come is through belief in Mohammad. Judaism does not have this exclusivity. Therefore, while in other religions they have a drive to force conversion, as they view it as a favor, Judaism has no such compulsion.
In Judaism, the only things which are required of everybody are the 7 basic Noahide laws:
1)No Idolatry
2) No Murder
3)No Theft
4)No Sexual immorality
5) No Blasphemy
6)No Eating the limb of a live animal
7)The requirement to set up courts of Justice
However, thats it- one does not have to take on any of the ritual observances of Judaism. Therefore, conversion was always supposed to be based on the conviction of the convert, and never for alterior motives such as Marriage, money, etc. Therefore, the Jews were always very reticent to accept such converts who converted for reasons other than true desire.

http://www.youtube.com/user/JewishHistoryDotOrg#p/c/0FA8227766E8EC2E/17/RsPZGdQGE2k

For a time this specific Antichrist will rule from Jerusalem, but will likely have to withdraw to Iraq as there are as yet unfulfilled prophecies regarding at least a partial destruction of Jerusalem and a rebuilding as well as kicking out some kind of economic leader, a man of peace who is “building” and yet corrupting the land (in Ezekiel it describes some destruction and perversion in the worship, as well as the temple to be built, but read especially Isaiah 22:9-22 which describes the Lord of Hosts throwing a particular person out of the land and giving the station of that person to another, the names of both that person and his father are given, which the name’s meanings should make you snicker, as it’s clearly referring to a messianic prophecy–the true King)

Try taking this into your account of the progression of events that will eventually put Jerusalem on the proper way in God’s plan, by personal intervention from the Lord of Hosts.

what I mean to say is, the faithful believers are the ones who say that their existence does not depend on any power, be it Europe, America, or the U.N.; their existence is a grant of God, not any man. They do not need any man to grant them either peace with their enemies, or define the limits of their borders.

The decision point is ofcourse, who does Israel want to be king over them?

Then the ultimate fate of those in the land who don’t make the wise decision, Luke 19:27

so it is possible that the beast could also be the waters, which is another form, they, the multitude, having the spirit of the beast.

it could also be juxtaposing the fact that God’s eternal gov’t is a Kingdom, and not a “democracy”

This remnant is “Jerusalem” (which will become New Jerusalem) those who continue to follow the E.U./U.N. Israel gov’t and decide on putting themselves under the authority of men (rather than God) and continuing to claim their national legitimacy on the world stage from documents written by men and man’s gov’t will be what you could call “Babylon”

It will make more sense as the time gets closer.

We then came across the following video:

http://vimeo.com/9533615

It is interesting to hear the comment ‘we have muslims, christians and jews all working together’ mmmmm.

The posession of oil enables one to be politically controlling … requiring nations to bow down to your demands. ‘That great city which reigns over the kings of the earth’.

Thanks for your time spent on putting together this current series.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0awEbHOmMBs&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.examiningthewmscog.com
http://www.encountering-ahnsahnghong.blogspot.com
http://www.trektorome.com

A off topic-question, though.
Have you heared Ralph Ellis and his books. Ralph Ellis has written a couple of books (e.g. Jesus – Last of Pharaos), in which Ellis attempts to draw a connection between certain historical, royal figures, and characters from the bible. Some of his suggestions are that Jesus is a descendent of a royal blood line, that Jesus had brothers, one of whom being Judas Iscariot, that the raising of Lazarus was, in fact, a masonic third-degree ceremony (death and resurrection). He also postulates that the betrayal of Jesus by Judas was a scam, a deliberate swindle, that Thomas Didymus was the twin brother of Jesus. Mind boggling claims, for sure.

But it is not the usual Zeitgeist, Jesus did not exist, line of thought, and it also is, surely, more deceptive than that too.
Some of his suggestions are quite intruiging and thought provoking although I understand that he can not prove all of his claims beyond any doubts.
But, how do we know that the way the evangelists portrayed Jesus’s life and his public appearance and works is accurate? Even if there were no deliberate attempts at misrepresenting the original gospel-tale during the years following the completion of the gospels – which I am willing to believe – how can we be sure that the gospel stories, themselves, are accurate, and that there was no agenda of deliberate falsification of how to outline the story by the evangelists themselves?

My questions is, have you ever looked into his work? Tried to debunk some of his claims, or straighened out the facts?
I understand it sounds all a tad Dan Brown-ish, or Holy Grail Holy Blood-ish, but he tries to sell his work as non-fiction. And I believe to refute some of his claims would be beneficial to the truth movement.

I simply do not have enough knowledge of the Bible or History, for that matter, and it takes a great deal of research to double-check all his claims. But you, Chris, being very apt at “debunkmentaries”, might have already had contact with his material.

You have managed to get me closer to the Christian faith, than anybody before. Through your rebuttals, you have cleary caught my attention – you do make sense. – But this, .. , I just don’t see why all of his theories would be wrong. Does he have an agenda? – Clearly this would question the devinity of Jesus Christ – I need to be sure.

Get help! Or at least watch the video, in full this time.
When you accuse the church, you fail to make a distinction between christianity and Rome, which the film was at pains to make.

You fail to make a distinction between religion and Jesus, a distinction made by the film, and an important one.

You’re not surrounded by demons, just hunger pangs! The bible doesn’t teach us to fast, nor hold up graven images up of the baby jeesus with his mother Mary. The Roman church teaches that the way to the son is through the mother. But it’s not true. You only have to read a bible for yourself (and that stuff is near the beginning), but romans are taught not to.

Separate the child from the mother. Separate your relationship with Jesus, from that of your religion. You’ll soon see those demons off.

And stop trying to promote alternative views! Anybody can see that they are causing you some distress.

Regards,

Seth, all the mp3’s are posted at http://versebyversebibleteaching.com

Daniel is something I am trying to figure out myself, dont know if I ever will. But this study has really made me think:
http://www.prewrathrapture.com/Daniel%202%20and%20Daniel%207%20-%20Equal%20or%20not%20Equal%20Part%201.pdf
http://www.prewrathrapture.com/Daniel%202%20and%20Daniel%207%20-%20Equal%20or%20not%20Equal%20Part%202.pdf
http://www.prewrathrapture.com/Daniel%202%20and%20Daniel%207%20-%20Equal%20or%20not%20Equal%20-%20Part%203.pdf
http://www.prewrathrapture.com/Daniel%202%20and%207%20-%20Equal%20or%20Not%20Equal%20-%20Part%204.pdf

Much love,
Seth Michael

Thanks.

Not the one on this site, the podcast here has me ranting about other stuff as well.

What can I say?! A superb job!, (once again!)

This has been particularly helpful to me, in doing some disentangling of a presentation by Mark Biltz, from his Feasts of the Lord series – the one on Yom Teruah – in which he sadly makes precisely the mistake, discussed.

This not to ‘diss’ Biltz’s work – which I find generally very nice. But we are after the Truth, the whole Truth and nothing but the Truth, no?!

By the way – Have You encountered the work of Andrew Gabriel Roth? Wheel of Stars? Any thoughts? …
http://www.wheelofstars.com/
http://vimeo.com/20911787
http://vimeo.com/20914324

Oxford, UK

If I chose to, I could easily reduce faith in Christ to the following (NO, this is NOT what I actually think): “Humans are to take a negative view of their reality, wherein the only way to escape their inherent evil (read: everything that makes them human) is to repent to a figure whose present existence cannot be verified. The Scripture gives no guidelines for living on the Earth without a ruling class (i.e. insufficient information about providing shelter, food, medicine, or clothing from the wild), but such is of little importance because a rapture is coming and true followers of Christ will be brought to Salvation.”

Again, that is NOT what I think of Christianity, but for all the same reasons you would disagree with such a poor synopsis, a devout Muslim or Buddhist would find fault with your poor paraphrase of their religious practices. Your argument, while well-planned, is little more than a “here’s why I’m right and you’re wrong” type of ordeal.

I understand that you’ve had an amazing experience through following Christ, which is great! But please understand that followers of other religions achieve just as amazing experiences through their various practices. They may be different from yours, but they are just as real. Your experience does not invalidate theirs and vice versa. I don’t think it’s necessary for you to do the reading I mentioned above if you’re simply going to follow Christ, but I will ask that you do such research if you’re going to denounce every other religion on the planet. It’s only fair!

I hope that didn’t come across as insulting, as again, I enjoy your videos. Just adding in my opinion. 🙂

I will be sharing this with any gay person I happen to talk to about this issue, thanks for the post man. God bless…

http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/masorete.htm

Thanks again for putting my conspiracy neurons to rest 🙂

God bless.

I never bought the dual particle reality thing. It seemed way to shady to be considered scientific.

Honestly, I don’t know what the whole huff with Elinin is about. People will grab onto whatever they can in the conspiracy world to make a conspiracy out of it. By the way, your “Mr.Conspiracy” voice has brightened my day. We definitely need more of that!

The more I look into the Nephilim in the last days thing, the more I agree with your perspective on it. It’s not biblical to say we will see Nephilim in the end times. I have heard the arguments about people believing they are Nephilim hybrids and I totally agree with you in that it is deception and a form mind control to keep people from believing they can be saved. Hence the whole discussion about, “can a Nephilim hybrid be saved?” is totally irrelevent.

All in all good show and keep it up. God Bless.

The Didache: Teachings of the 12 Apostles
The Didache is, in all probability, the oldest surviving extant piece of non-canonical literature. It is not so much a letter as a handbook for new Christian converts, consisting of instructions derived directly from the teachings of Jesus. The book can be divided into three sections. The first six chapters consist of Christian lessons; the next four give descriptions of the Christian ceremonies, including baptism, fasting and communion; and the last six outline the church organization.

The Didache claims to have been authored by the twelve apostles. While this is unlikely, the work could be a direct result of the first Apostolic Council, c.50 C.E. (Acts 15:28). Similarities to the Apostolic Decree are apparent, and the given structure of the church is quite primitive. Also, the description of the Eucharist (bread and wine) carefully avoids mention of the “body and blood of Christ,” obviously being regarded as one of the secret mysteries of eary Christianity. Most scholars agree that the work, in its earliest form, may have circulated as early as the 60’s C.E., though additions and modifications may have taken place well into the third century. The work was never officially rejected by the Church, but was excluded from the canon for its lack of literary value.

The complete text of the Didache was discovered in the Codex Hierosolymitanus, though a number of fragments exist, most notably in the Oxyrhynchus Papyri. It was originally composed in Greek, probably within a small community.
THE DIDACHE
Translated from the Greek text published
by Roswell D. Hitchcock in 1884.
TEACHING OF THE LORD TO THE NATIONS THROUGH THE TWELVE APOSTLES

ONE

Two ways there are, one of life and one of death, but there is a great difference between the two ways.

The way of life is indeed this: First, you will love the God who made you; secondly, “you will love your neighbor as yourself.” Now all the things that you do not want to have happen to you, you too do not do these to one another.

Now the teaching of these sayings is this: “Praise those who curse you”, and pray for your enemies; now fast for those who are persecuting you. For what favor is it if you love those who love you? Don’t the gentiles do the same? But you love those who hate you, and you will have no enemies.

“Hold yourself away from the fleshly” and kosmic “strong desires.” “If someone should give you a blow to your right cheek, turn to him also the left one,” and you will be complete. “If anyone should force you to go one mile, go with him two.” “If anyone takes your cloak, give him your tunic also.” If anyone takes what is yours away from you, do not ask for it back. For neither are you able. “Give to everyone who asks from you,” and do not ask for it back. For the Father wants to give of his own free gifts to everyone.

Blessed is the one who gives according to the precept, for he is guiltless. Woe to the one who takes. For if indeed someone takes who has a need, he will be guiltless. But the one who has no need will give a judgment as to why he took, and for what reason, and he will come under arrest and will be examined about what he did. And “he will not go out from there until he pays the last quadrans.” But it has also been said about this: “Let your charitable gifts sweat in your hands, until indeed you know who to give to.”

Now the second precept of the teaching is: ” You will not murder. You will not commit adultery.” You will not sodomize young boys. You will not have unlawful sex. ” You will not steal.” Do not practice magic. Do not practice sorcery. Neither murder a child by abortion, nor will you destroy what is born. You will not strongly desire your neighbor’s things. You will not make oaths. ” You will not bear false testimony.” You will not say bad things. You will not remember bad things. You will not be double-minded or double-tongued, for the double-tongue is a snare of death. Your message is not to be false or empty, but being filled with practice. You should be neither greedy nor a swindler, nor hypocrite, nor malicious, nor high-minded. You will not take evil counsel against your neighbor. You will not hate any people, but you will reprove some, and you will pray for some, and some you will love more than your life.

My child, flee from every evil thing, and from everything like it. Do not become angry, for anger is the way to murder. Neither should you be jealous, nor one who creates strife, nor emotional. For murders are born out of all of these.

My child, do not become strongly desirous, for strong desire is the way to sexual sin. Neither should you be a speaker of filth, nor high-eyed. For adulteries are born out of all of these.

My child, do not become someone who looks for omens, since it is the way to idolatry. Neither should you be an enchanter, nor an astrologer, nor a cleanser. Nor should you want to look at these things, for idolatry is born out of all of these things.

My child, do not become a liar, since lying is the way to theft. Neither should you be greedy, nor a lover of money, nor worthlessly conceited. For thefts are born out of all of these things. My child, do not become a grumbler, since it leads to evil speaking. Neither should you be assumers, nor evil-minded. For evil-speakings are born out of all of these.

But be meek, since “the meek will inherit the land.” Become longsuffering, and merciful, and guiltless, and quiet, and good, and throughout everything tremble at the sayings that you have heard.

You will not exalt yourself, nor will you give over-boldness to your soul. Your soul will not cling with the high people, but you will conduct yourself with the just and lowly ones. Accept the things that transpire to you as good workings, knowing that nothing happens without God.

My child, remember night and day the one who is speaking God’s message to you. Now you will honor him as you would honor the Lord. For where the lordship may be spoken, there is the Lord. Now daily you will seek out the faces of the holy ones, so that you would be refreshed by their words. You will not want division, but you will make peace with those who are fighting. You will judge justly. In giving a reproof of a wandering, you will not respect anyone’s presence. You will not be two souled regarding whether or not it should be. Do not become like one who stretches out his hands for taking but who draws them in for giving. If you have, you will give by your hands a ransom for your sins. You will not hesitate to give, nor will you grumble while giving. For you will know who it is that is the nice payer of the reward. You will not turn away the one who is needy, but you will share all things together with your brother, and you will not claim them to be your own things. For if you are partners in what is immortal, how much more are you partners in what is mortal?

You will not take your hand away from your son or your daughter, but from youth you will teach the fear of God. You will not give directives in your bitterness to your slave or handmaid, these who are hoping in the same God. Otherwise they may not fear the God who is over both of you. For he is not coming to call people according to appearance, but upon those whom the spirit has made ready. Now you who are slaves should be submissive to your lords in sobriety and fear, as to a type of God.

You will hate every hypocrisy and all of what is not pleasing to the Lord. You will by no means forsake the Lord’s precepts, but you will guard what you have received–neither adding to them nor removing from them. You will acknowledge your wanderings in an assembly, and you will not come forward to your prayer with an evil consciousness. This is the way of life.

TWO

Now the way of death is this: First of all, it is evil and full of curses: murders, adulteries, strong desires, unlawful sex acts, thefts, idolatries, magic acts, sorceries, robberies, false testimonies, hypocrisies, two-heartedness, deceit, arrogance, badness, assumptions, greed, shameful speech, jealousy, an overbearing nature, loftiness, pride; persecutors of good; hating truth, loving falsehood; not knowing the reward of what is right, not clinging to good, nor to just judgment, watching not for good but for evil. Far from these people are meekness and endurance. They love worthless things, persuing revenge, not showing mercy to a poor person, not laboring for those who are weary, not knowing the one who made them, murderers of children, corrupters of molded image of God, turning away those who are in need,oppressing the afflicted; comforters of the wealthy, lawless judges of the poor; universal sinners. Children, may you be rescued from all of these.

See to it that no one lead you astray from this way of the teaching, since it does not teach you without God. For if indeed you are able to bear the whole of the Lord’s yoke, you will be complete. But if you are not able, do what you are able.

THREE

Now about food: bear what you are able to bear. But watch out for the idol-sacrifices, for this is a religious service of dead gods.

Now about baptism, baptize this way: after first uttering all of these things, baptize “into the name of the Father and of the son and of the holy Spirit” in running water. But if you do not have running water, baptize in other water. Now if you are not able to do so in cold water, do it in warm water. Now if you don’t have either, pour water three times on the head, “into the name of the Father, and of the son, and of the holy Spirit.” Now before the ritual cleansing, the baptizer and the one being baptized should fast, and any others who are able. Now you will give word for the one who is being baptized to fast for one or two days beforehand.

But do not let your fasts be with the hypocrites. For they fast on the second day of the week and on the fifth. But you fast on the fourth day and the day of preparation. Neither should you pray like the hypocrites, but as the Lord gave word in his good message, pray like this: “Our Father, the one who is in Heaven, your name has been made holy. Let your kingdom come. Let what you want also be done on earth, as in Heaven. Give us the bread we need today and forgive us our debts as we also forgive our debtors. And don’t carry us into trial, but rescue us from the evil one. For yours is the power and the glory for the age.” Pray this way three times daily.

Now about the thanksgiving, give thanks this way:

First, about the cup: “We thank you, our Father, for the holy vine of your boy David which you made known to us through your boy Jesus. Glory be to you for the age.

Now about the broken loaf: “We thank you, our Father, for the life and the knowledge that you made known to us through your boy Jesus. Glory be to you for the age. Just as this broken loaf was scattered on top of the hills and as it was gathered together and became one, in the same way let your assembly be gathered together from the remotest parts of the land into your kingdom. “For yours is the glory and the power through Anointed Jesus for the age.” Now no one should either eat or drink from your thanksgiving meal, but those who have been baptized into the Lord’s name. For about this also the Lord said, “Do not give what is holy to the dogs.”

Now after you have been filled, give thanks this way: “We thank you, holy Father, for your holy name, which you made to live in our hearts, and for the knowledge and trust and immortality which you made known to us through Jesus your boy. Glory be to you for the age.

“Almighty master, it was you who created all for the sake of your name. You gave both food and drink to people for enjoyment, so that they might give thanks to you. But to us you have freely given spiritual food and drink and eternal life through your boy. Before all things, we are thankful to you that you are powerful. Glory be to you for the age.

“O Lord, remember your assembly, remember to rescue it from every evil and to make it complete in your love, and to gather it from the four winds into your kingdom which youprepared for it–it, which has been made holy. For yours is the power and the glory for the age.

“Let generosity come, and let this universe pass away. Hosanna to David’s son! If someone is holy, let him come. If someone is not, he should change his mind. Marana-tha. A-mein.” Now permit the prophets to give thanks as much as they want.

FOUR

Therefore, the one who comes and teaches you all of these things which have been previously spoken, accept him. But if he, the teacher, should turn to teach another teaching, so as to release this one, do not listen to him. But if he teaches to promote what is right and knowledge of the Lord, accept him as you would the Lord.

Now about the envoys and prophets, do just as according to the tenet of the good message. Now each envoy who comes to you, accept as you would the Lord. But he will not remain for one day. Now if there is need, also the next day. But if he remains for three, he is a false prophet.

Now when the envoy departs, he should take nothing except bread until he lodges. But if he should ask for money, he is a false prophet.

And every prophet who speaks with the spirit, you will not test or judge, for every sin will be forgiven. But not everyone who speaks with the spirit is a prophet: but if he has the conduct of the Lord. Therefore, from their conduct, the false prophet and the prophet will be made known. And no prophet with the spirit who orders a meal eats from it, unless indeed he is a false prophet. Now every prophet who teaches the truth, if he does not do as he teaches, is a false prophet. But every prophet who has been proved, who is true, who does things for the kosmic secrets of the assembly but who does not teach to do as he does, will not be judged among you. For the ancient prophets did it this way also. But whoever says with the spirit, “Give me money (or something else),” you will not listen to him. But if he says to give on behalf of others who are in need, no one should judge him.

Now everyone who comes in the Lord’s name should be accepted. But afterward, you will examine him to know him. For you will have understanding, right and left. If the one who comes is a traveller, help him as much as you are able. But he will not remain with you except for two or three days, if there is a necessity. But if he wants to dwell with you, since he is a craftsman, he should work to eat. But if he has no craft, provide according to your understanding, so that no lazy person would be lifing among you as an “Anointed”. But if he does not want to do this, he is one who profits financially from the Anointed One. Be careful about such people.

Now every true prophet who wants to settle near you is worthy of his wage. In the same way, a true teacher is also worthy, just as the workman, of his wage. Therefore, every foremost part of the products of the press and threshing floor, both of oxen and of sheep, you will take and give to the prophets. For they are your high priests.

But if you do not have a prophet, give these to the poor. If you make baked bread, take the foremost part and give according to the precept. In the same way, when you open a jar of wine or of oil, take the foremost part and give to the prophets. Now of money and clothing and every possession, take the foremost part as you think it right and give according to the precept.

FIVE

Now according to the Lord’s day, gather together and break bread and give thanks, after acknowledging your wanderings to one another, so your sacrifice would be a clean one. But each one who has something against his friend, do not let him come together with you until they are reconciled, so that your sacrifice would not be made common. For this is what was declared by the Lord: ” In every place and time, carry to me a clean sacrifice. Because I am a great king,” says Yahweh, ” and my name is a wondrous thing among the nations.”

SIX

Now hand pick for yourselves overseers and servants worthy of the Lord: men who are meek, not lovers of money, true and proved. For they are giving religious service to you also, as the prophets and teachers are giving religious service.

SEVEN

Now reprove one another, not in anger but in peace, as you have it in the good message. And no one should speak to each one who misses the mark against another one, nor should he hear from you, until he changes his mind. But your vows and your charitable works and all your practices, do these, as you have it in the good message of our Lord.

Be vigilant on behalf of your life. Do not let your lamps be extinguished, and do not relax your loins. But become prepared. For you do not know the hour in which our Lord is coming. Now you will gather together often, seeking the things that are appropriate for your souls. For all the time of your trust will not profit you, if you do not become complete in the last season.

For in the last days, the false prophets and the corruptors will be multiplied, and the sheep will be turned into wolves, and love will be turned into hate. For when the lawlessness increases, they will hate one another, and they will persecute and deliver up, and then the deceiver of creation will appear as God’s son, and he will do signs and wonders. And the land will be given up into his hands. And he will do lawless things which have never been done from the age.

Then human creation will come into the fire of examination, and many will stumble and be destroyed. But those who endure in their trust will be saved from this accursed thing. And then the signs of truth will appear. First, the sign of an opening in Heaven, then the sign of a trumpet’s sound, and thirdly, a resurrection of dead people. But not of all people; on the contrary, as it was declared, “The Lord will come, and all the holy ones with him.” Then creation will see the Lord “coming on the clouds of the sky.”

search for: Zeitgeist, History Rewritten – Chris White

search for: The ‘Real’ Zeitgeist Challenge” DEBUNKED

search for: Zeitgeist addendum is NWO propaganda

search for : 2012 Enlightenment & the World Genocide

search for: Satanic Priest Explains Pop Culture Brainwash

search for: They are Misleading You

search for: Mystery Schools – The Externalization of the Hierarchy

search for : Jordan Maxwell Debunked

search for: David Icke Debunked

Here’s the link: http://aerycksmusic.wordpress.com/2011/08/02/post-538-apologetic-failures-iv/

None of this is new to you since after 20 years you’re intimately familiar with the subject but here’s a couple links I liked. The first one is an article.
http://www.faithfreedom.org/Articles/sina31214.htm

This next one is a video of a talk given by Warren Smith, he mentions ACIM specifically at around the 5:20 mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PStqjTZEGk

And this is I think the second half of Warren Smith’s talk.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCldsyeZQgs&feature=related

The word Elohim is used for the beginning of Genesis so it’s one of those words that is plural and singular depending on context. The standard translation for that issue is that it was talking about the trinity. I believe it does but at the same time, I do think that it was not simply referring to the trinity since that concept was not around at the time of the writing.

I point you to the work of Dr.Michael Heiser and the Divine Council. He does a great job breaking down the word Elohim and the many ways it is used in the Old Testament. He refers to it as being “entities of which their humble abode is the spiritual world” In other words, Yahweh is Elohim, but not all Elohim are Yahweh. In other words, it’s quite possible that what we refer to as angels and other heavely hosts were present at the time of creation. These are theories and things we will never fully know until we meet the Lord, but it’s fun to ponder nonetheless.

Thanks Josh,
This happened in the UK.
Well, I read on the Internet that these people undergo a 4 years training before they start evangelizing.
Even though they seemed to be very prepared, they always only showed me one or two verses at a time. I doubt they know the entire bible. They are just conditioned to bring their argument across, and, this way, everybody could have say the bible anything I believe.

Also, what irritated me most is that they did not want to spread the message of salvation, compassion, or sinless live. They were eager to enlighten me on the fact that 90% of all Christians had not got it right and were not able to recognize this fact.

Kev,
I dont always have time to approve comments right away. I dont remove anyone’s comments.

Good podcast, really enjoyed it, keep it up brother.

Still the concept of a “Heavenly Mother” was somewhat remote to me. So I started telling them to provide scriptural proof to their claims, as to all of my knowledge, the trinity is the father, the son, and the holy ghost. There is no Heavenly mother (In error, I first believed they were talking about some Catholic understanding of the divine mother marry).

So they proceeded to show me excerpts of unconnected bible passages (especially Revelation 21 2-9) where it seems to be talking about the Lamb’s wife). Somehow, they seem to be pushing the notion that God is, in fact, two entities (man and female) interwoven into one.. all kind of weird stuff. They also talked about Adam and Eve, and that because God created man in their image, god was also female.

The point is, that even though I could discern that this, certainly, was not usual bible teaching, I was unable to provide them with a proper explanation as to what the bible was referring to instead. I don’t even know if god can be referred to as being male or female. Can any of you do this?

Is the bride of the Lamb actually a city? Jerusalem? Is Jerusalem an actual city or is it to be seen as the representation of some devine concept, as the girl was claiming?

Also, the Koreans were pointing out that in Genesis it seems to be talking about the gods (a plural term), and that this would indicate the dual nature (male and female principle) of god.
I was actually always wandering this, why does genesis seem to be insinuating that there where gods, in the beginning? Is this just a mistranslation from the Hebrew?

After further investigation, I seem to have been able to pinpoint the origin of these two Koreans thinking: An off-shoot of the Seventh’s day adventists called the World Mission Society Church of God. No worries I wasn’t touched by their lines in any way. The determination and resolution of these two individuals still struck me. Seeing people misinterpret the scripture, makes me wonder how other Christians can discern the true Gospel from distorted versions. There would not be so much disagreement if the scriptures were absolutely unambiguous.

Could anyone give some advice on the Lamb’s bride question and the Gods notion – I would really appreciate any input.

Kev

per scripture, what feels like a 24 hour day to us certainly must feel like any & all amounts of time to God.

1 Timothy 6:20 O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called:
1Timothy 6:21 Which some professing have erred concerning the faith.

Just some thoughts. I enjoy your podcasts. Keep up the good work.

Just thought it was cool and worth sharing. I love seeing the layers of information that God’s word reveals from book to book to book.

Wild claims – The first claim they make is that theorists claim that the comet will collide with the earth. This is simply not true, as in my research, I have not found one person claiming this. Only that it will pass along the trajectory laid out on the JPL website and pass closer to Earth than any of the planets, greatly rocking it with its massive gravitational field.

Then they go onto say that it will not pass through the Tail. This is of course assuming it is a comet. If it is, it would be the slowest comet we’ve seen yet, approaching the sun at arounf the same speed the planets rotate around it. The reason we can see comets streaking past the earth at high speed is because they usually go a LOT faster than the planets. In this case, it is impossible for it to be a comet, or we would have spotted it by now. It is in fact a DARK brown dwarf star, a failed star with a massive gravitational field, one that is affecting Earth and possibly the other planets too.

Leonid Elenin – Again they are picking their arguments to try and make their point. Nowhere have I heard anybody claim Leonid Elenin to be made up. They pull a mad post off of abovetopsecret, and reference that as if its valid. They have to focus on these small unimportant arguments because they can’t say how anyone could have predicted the earthquake in Japan. Can you explain it?

Don Yeomans – This is not a comet. NAZA called it a comet because calling it a brown dwarf star would alert the worlds amateur astronomers who would initiate widespread panic as a dark star passing that close would rock the earth to the core. Comets don’t move that slow and they certainly don’t cause 8.8s and 8.9s when they align. At the next alignment we will be caught between the suns gravitational pull and elenins, which will be almost right on our ass.

The next point addresses comments by NAZA, who recently put their staff and families on alert, to prepare for a disaster, you can see the video memo in the links below and on their website, along with FEMA, the EPA and many others.

Chris I really think you’re glossing over this because you fell for the Stitchin stuff before, as many did. But this isn’t a mad conspiracy theory with no basis in reality, being pushed by new age saps, this is a genuine event in our history, and most of the people warning us about it are Christians. IT is not a planet, with aliens living on it, it is a brown dwarf star on a 4,000 year rotation around our sun and could possibly be the same astral body that caused the flood. Try and sweep it under the carpet if you will but if you check the links below you you’ll see that there were websites and videos, astronomers and Christians, predicting the Japanese earthquake and minor pole shift, to the day, saying it could be a 9.0 and to get the hell out of Japan ASAP.
This isn’t something to be laughed off and dismissed like Stitchin. The website above does NOTHING to debunk or rebuke any of the Elenin information I have heard. 99% of researchers on the topic say that it is going to come closer to Earth than any astral body, and will align in septmeber and in October. On Feb 27 2010 the alignment caused the Chilean8.8, then in 2011 we got the 8.9 in Japan, what’s it going to do when it gets as close as it does? If it causes a quake, which physics dictates it should, it’ll probably be bigger than anything we’ve ever seen. I’m not one for apocalyptic predictions, I just try and serve the lord, but can you tell me honestly you’ve looked at the data and find it lacking or you just don’t want to believe it, because it sounds crazy, reminds you of Niburu and it means many people will die and theres nothing we can do?

Its either as I’ve said it is and someone is conspiring to hide it, or NASA and the lovely folks at HAARP are conspiring to create massive earthquakes on specific days and I’m more inclined to believe that it’s a large astral body than a complicated conspiracy that doesn’t make much sense, especially when you look at all the info available. Its like the time I realised the new age was a sham, I didn’t want to believe it but I couldn’t ignore the large volumes of truth I would come across. The above effort is not going to convince anyone of anything. It’s copy and paste from a sceptics website, a man who doesnt believe in the New World Order and mocks the bible, which addresses issues which are moot points, things nobody mentions except for fringe message boards. Look at the original material, and you’ll find nobody of any value is claiming elenin will hit the earth or that it is just a comet. NASA are saying its just a comet and its harmless but can I ask one thing of you? Please at least try to explain how so many CHRISTIAN websites and youtube videos predicted the earthquake, comparing the alignments to last year’s Chilean earthquake? This was days and weeks in advance of the actual quake.

Here’s a video of alex jones talking about one of the people who predicted the quake, followed by her actual video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6flC6On8R-I

http://endtimesforecaster.blogspot.com/2011/02/comet-elenin-and-pole-shift-theory.html – one of the better sites on Elenin, run by a well read christian.
The website you quoted off contains the writings of a poorly researched, close minded, bible-mocking researcher with a large ego who doesn’t even believe in the new world order and you’re listing him as a credible source even though he addresses NONE of the points that surround this issue.

Proof the website is run by anti-biblical assholes, just huge sceptics of everything who happened to focus on 2012 and do minimal original research: http://www.2012hoax.org/rants http://www.2012hoax.org/wormwood

http://alamongordo.com/general/elenin-timeline/
All the alignments, past and future.
I challenge you to debunk elenin, based on the real and popular points, not debunking claims like “elenin will hit the earth” when I’ve heard nobody except youtube commenters say that.
I will be putting together something on it very soon but the audience you reach is FAR greater.

Most importantly, watch this guys videos:
http://www.youtube.com/user/TerralO3#p/u/27/sICl66UiCto

ponder on this conversation between god and jesus on the day of judgment.

“And when God said, ‘O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say unto men, “Take me and my mother as gods, apart from God”? He(Jesus) said, ‘To you be glory! It is not mine to say what I have no right to. If I indeed said it, you would have known it, knowing what is within my heart, though I do not know your knowledge; you know the things unseen. I only said to them what you did commands me:
“Serve God, my God and your God”
(Al-Maida 5-116)

Jesus said “Here, O Israel:
The Lord our God is one Lord
” (Mark 12:29 )

On that day will lie against jesus, and you can’t bring one quote where Jesus said worship me.

please do not break the first commandment of all messengers including Moses

“You shall have no other gods before Me.”

Why the Antichrist(false messiah)Dajjal’s NWO is at war with Islam?
because Islam is the true religion of God, throughout history every messenger of God and those that follow him in pure monotheism were prosecuted. and Islam doesn’t recognize the UN or their man made laws called democracy or following human desire in governance, there for it’s the only ideologically opponent they have. Christianity has no teeth when it comes to governance they’ve all ready passivized it and are not worried about it.

God bless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqdQ6_MAH2A

Thanks

I’m very excited about the idea of you making the effort to revamp the DVD tracts so that they are of the best quality. Great idea! On the gospel tract I hope you will explain why universalism cannot be true and why Jesus is the only way.

By the way, back when you did the podcast on prayer at the end you had some nice instrumental music playing that helped me to pray while listening to it. Can you tell me the name of that CD?

Thank you,
Josh

Of course true christains are closet to muslims because of their high morals, but still you’re not truely following jesus(pbh)

“…and nearest among them in love to the believers will you find those who say, ‘We are Christians,’ because amongst these are men devoted to learning and men who have renounced the world, and they are not arrogant” (5:82).

“Oh People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion, nor say of God anything but the truth. Christ Jesus, the son of Mary, was (no more than) a messenger of God, and His Word which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him. So believe in God and His messengers. Say not, ‘Trinity.’ Desist! It will be better for you, for God is One God, Glory be to Him! (Far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is God as a Disposer of affairs” (4:171).

with regards to the subject of Jinn in Islam this good video and book i found.
http://www.kalamullah.com/Books/The%20Jinn%20And%20Human%20Sickness.pdf
video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LjJu4sI-18U&feature=related

watch this video regarding trinity
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53pDgn8JGbg

And I pray my Allah guide you the truth.

Is here an electronic copy of this available?..

http://www.echoesofenoch.com/archived_articles.htm

The Jesuits however where not discussed. I know that the Black Pope is the head of Freemasonry, but I have know knowledge on the role of Jesuitism within Theosophy. I get confused, when the leading role of Roman Catholicism is left out off informative material like this. Especially when Christianity plays such a large role. Because Roman Catholicism also teaches Jesus Christs as a savior, while addressing the person rather than the teaching.

Therefor I am off the opinion, that the movie would be stronger, when the role of Counter Reformation would be in the middle of the deceit. It was the Roman Catholic Church that was burning Bibles in the 16th century, would try to falsify the Bible in later centuries, not Luciferians. At least, not open Luciferians, as are presented in the movie. An open Luciferian at least is honest. It is the Luciferians posing as Christians that are the most dangerous ones. I hope people will be aware of the deceit in the Jesuit run churches after this film. We should take our gatherings back, but that is impossible if Luciferians posing as Christian Leaders can not be traced and eliminated from gatherings.

Some Christian leaders where presented in the first part of the movie. How can the audience discern between a false Church leader, and a humble Gathering guy spreading life saving knowledge?

When I was coming out of the lifestyle this was the organization that helped me tremendously.

Congrats on the new title. You’re an inspiration for folks like me for sure. Great stuff on this podcast.

The topic of homosexuality in relationship with Christianity is huge and definitely needed online. I think part of the mission is to find what we have a heart for. I know my church has a great outreach community and personally I am developing relationships with people in it to figure out where I fit into all of this. Anyways, Chris keep on truckin! God Bless!

War means tears
to thousands of mothers eyes
When their sons go to fight
and lose their lives

I said – War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War! Whoa, Lord …
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
War! It’s an enemy to all mankind
The thought of war blows my mind

War has caused unrest in the younger generation
Induction then destruction-
Who wants to die?

Ohhh? War Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it, Say it, Say it

War! Uh-huh Yeah – Huh!
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! It’s got one friend, that’s the undertaker
War has shattered many a young mans dreams
Made him disabled bitter and mean
Life is much to precious to spend fighting wars these days
War can’t give life, it can only take it away

War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Absolutely nothing
Say it again

War! Whoa, Lord …
What is it good for
Absolutely nothing
Listen to me?

War! It ain’t nothing but a heartbreaker
War! Friend only to the undertaker
Peace Love and Understanding;
tell me, is there no place for them today?
They say we must fight to keep our freedom
But Lord knows there’s got to be a better way

War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
You tell me
Say it, Say it, Say it

War! Huh Good God y’all
What is it good for?
Stand up and shout it.
Nothing!

Thanks,
Anthony

and study the WHOLE channel

The arguments of some creationists helped get me back on the fence, but didnt quite put me over the edge.

By recognizing the spiritual forces in play, God brought me past the creation doubts. I just couldnt see why scientists would be lying or a motive to change history. We have all been sold on the altruism and precision of science throughout our entire education and media. The end game, of course, is a secular, scientific explanation for everything. But by recognizing who gains from this and by starting to understand the spiritual forces in play, the house of cards came down, and I could see the well-oiled conspiracy at work.

These things all play out in popular music which is emitted at this very time. I’ve just lately seen a music video from Beyoncey (called girls) which actually showed this exact concept of revolution and the “New Age Movement” fighting against the “evil” NWO (depicted as police, control forces).
The entire clip is heavily charged with symbols of the antichrist and other spiritual themes like the horsemen on its black horse, which brings desolation and famines from the book of revelation.
I am only saying this because it almost knocked me off my feet, to see that this is exactly what Chris has been talking about and there it is, in plain sight.. The world revolution of the new race rebelling against the police state. And these guys know the bible they know the symbols and stories. I really need to start studying the bible myself. How can I know the truth, if I don’t read it for myself. The only reason why I haven’t started reading the bible for myself is because I was put off the the sheer size and the apparent complexity of all the intricate connections the different gospels and the old testament have.

Anyways, I found the interview rather tedious maybe because the Paul was a bit nervous. His answers were quite difficult to comprehend or follow. I even wondered if that person could have been the same person that did the interview.

Giving up our time and money to help those in ned IS in many ways, the 5th gospel; Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and our lives. We have to be examples to the world through our lives, or the rest of the Gospel becomes obsolete. I think you did a great job illustrating this point in this one. Keep it up!

what’s the deal with Revelations 16:15 where it seems in the middle of bowl judgments God indicates he’s going to be coming as a thief in the night. This is clearly after God’s wrath has started. It certainly doesn’t sound like the second coming since that’s not exactly going to be a secret since there are plenty of signs and wonders going on with increasing intensity. Curious about your perspective Chris. Thanks – Greg

I am speechless.
This testimony may be the most important thing I have listened to in a long time.

Thank you so much for being so open and for expressing God’s love in such a rich and beautiful way.

Wow…just wow…

What really helped me was the bible. Just reading that every night has really helped me stay focused and increased my understanding of all the factors involved on the straight path.

Side note to all those battling. I found that after stumbling I would having a short fuse or just be generally curt with my wife sometimes. All of that unfounded attitude went away after winning the battles!

Take care and God bless!

Awesome video. Great for not just kids but anyone who has questions about the occult. Definitely excited about this one. You kept it simple, grounded in truth, and organized. Well done! Praise God!

do you know of a website that i could make for myself that is free. I used to have ning.com, but since then..they charge now. I would like my own site again to share info on the dangerous new age….

COUNTER-REFORMATION JESUITS TEACH REV. 17 IS ON JERUSALEM TO POINT THE FINGERS AWAY FROM THEMSELVES!

http://marcoponce.com/2011/04/islamic-catholic-eschatology/

DON’T FALL FOR IT. IT’S THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

http://thewhoreofrevelation.com

Awesome post. My church is also in fellowship with a church in kenya called Mavuno Church. We’ve partnered with them for a few years now and I think its been a really cool thing. Every year, they come and visit, and their worship team brings a very uplifting style and its fresh and fun.

The part you mentioned about how the people in Kenya have greater faith than we do is so true. They live by faith daily, but we here in America are just bombarded with different things to make our lives easier. We definitely have privileges that many people around the world don’t and its easy to forget that when things go wrong or don’t go the way we want it to.

Keep up the great work Chris! God Bless!

So what I still can’t quite figure out at this point is this:

Why would this perspective that you are outlining (that the Woman is the physical city of Jerusalem) necesarily have to be at odds with the idea that “Mystery Babylon” is also a description of the “Babylonian Mystery Religion” that Satan has been cultivating since the original city of Babylon?

I mean, we know that God must have a reason for referencing the Woman in such a way (calling her “Mystery Babylon”), and we can clearly see that it is not a geographical connection. In your view, you are totally aknowledging that the AntiChrist will set up his throne there, but we also can’t ignore the reality that the “Babylonian Mystery Religion” is the very thing that has been aiming to achieve this goal of seating Satan on the throne over the whole earth throughout all of history.

So why would these two things have to be mutally exclusive at all? Why can’t they both be equally accurate conclusions? Why can’t we look at it as both the physical city of Jerusalem as the “capitol” of Satan’s earthly, Anti-Christ empire, AND a way of talking about the broader occult “system” of “Babylon”? (in fact, wouldn’t that make the most sense? How could Satan reign from Jerusalem without also making it the last of a series of occult power-centers? How could we think of Satan reigning over the whole Earth without the inevitable involvement of his entire occultic false religion?)

1 Peter 5:13
The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

This is the same Peter whom the Roman Catholic Church claims is the first Pope.

Was Peter even buried in Rome, as is claimed?

http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/peters-jerusalem-tomb.htm

I smell jesuits…

I would watch porn everyday many times more than once. As a result I allowed it to control my life for so long that I didn’t realize what it was to be human either. It begins to consume your thoughts and pervert your daily encounters. If a girl that I found attractive crossed my path I would immediately undress her mentally and imagine her sexually.

After finding Jesus in my life I began to view sex through a different perspective. I found the act its self is designed to be between a married couple. I personally know how destructive it is when done outside such a committed union.

We need to purge ourselves from the idea that sex can be better with the right person. The world promotes the idea that casual sex helps us evaluate our partner before we enter into a permanent relationship. Porn further stimulates that belief as we spend hours searching for the next perfect video with the next perfect girl that will bring greater pleasure. Instead we destroy the relationship we are in because we are never satisfied with what we have.

I have since given up porn but continue to struggle with my daily encounters. I found your video very encouraging and praise you for addressing such a personal issue. I too have stumbled and agree it becomes easier the longer you go without it. The test truly comes when you are out in the world and encounter attractive women. I have been convicted that even looking at a woman with lust is just as bad as fornication itself. I am confident that I can have the victory over such sin and thank you again for your guidance.

One of the major keys for me to get victory over pornography was to realize, just as you say, that it was Satan condemning me and telling me to hide away from God whenever I fell into sin. I was feeling guilty and unworthy to seek God’s face. At last I realized that God was telling me to come to him even in those moments when I fell and we started to work on getting the victory together – he already had the victory and he was teaching me how to have it as well.

Had success for a while but a major fallback for a few months but seeking God still. Then I heard this phrase in a sermon that stuck out to me and has changed my life: “activate your will”, which is as you say – doing your part. I can choose not to watch that, I can choose not to give time to that thought etc. I can identify the source and character of every thought I have and not allow the ones from the enemy. Instead I take authority over them in the name of Jesus.

Activating our will according to God’s Word is discipline and a part of being a disciple of Jesus. My next project is to have victory over my procrastination and laziness. Already seeing major changes but a long way to go still hehe.

My view of God has changed a lot through dealing with this addiction. God does not regard us with contempt but truly loves us to put so much energy and patience towards us 🙂

I (like most christians) really want the final days to come, so we can once and for all fight all the evil in this world. Cause i have recently investigated so many theories that leave little room for doubt, that all have in common the dark hand of the devil, like the 911 true story; the influence of darkness in the music industry, Hollywood; the huge power and sphere of influence of secret societies and their “religious” beliefs; the orchestrated dumbing down of society, through “drugs” propaganda, the education system etc.; the construction of containment camps all over the US; the “advertising” behind 2012; corruption right to the bone of politics and corporations; and many other dark aspects that are so spread out and many times praised in this XXI century, that leave me wishing the time comes when the gloves come off, the devil shows his real face and we can finally unite to overcome this pest that causes so much pain and sadness in what could be a truly amazing and wonderful world for everyone.
Glad i had this little monologue =) it felt good.

Once again i congratulate you.
Thank you for letting your voice be heard.

What’s the difference between “partial preterist” and someone who believes in “dual fulfillment”? Seems like more or less a semantic difference in the end…

And in a weird way, it makes sense that Jesus’s response to questions about the “End of the Age” would have a dualistic answer, because in that sense he would be more or less describing the the end of both “ages”, first, the age of God working primarily through Israel, and then ultimately the “church age” coming to it’s conclusion… If that is so, then the events of 70 A.D. would effectively serve as a “type and shadow” of the more larger scale events that will happen when the Anti-Christ enthrones himself over the entire world, and seeks to destroy the true temple of God, which is us, the believers in Jesus, who are the all the “temple” of the Holy Spirit…

I will admit I have wrestled over what the term “this generation” must mean in all of this. Even though you seem to think that the word “generation” must mean the people living in that particular time period, I have to admit I think there is something to be considered in possibly looking at it as meaning “lineage”, or something similar… Obviously, Jesus did not return in time for Caiaphas and the priests to see Him sitting on the clouds in their temporal life times, so in the end, it definitely poses some difficult questions…

And finally, while I agree that when the disciples approached Jesus before the Olivet discourse and we’re asking him about the temple being torn down and Jesus’ return, they most likely thinking solely in temporal, immidiate terms, the notion that Jesus answered their questions “dualistically” would make sense, if we acknowledge that perhaps they were really asking questions that were “dualistic” in nature, without even realizing it themselves… Although they clearly seemed to assume they were asking about things that were immidiate in their fulfillment, they inadvertantly were touching upon things that encompassed a much broader scope. So, Jesus answers both, but leaves a seeming amount of ambiguity in all of it…

This really frustrated me for a number of years, but now I have more peace about, because in the end I don’t really worry about trying to figure out things like what the “abomination of desolation” is ahead of time. I have confidence that the amount of information God has given us will be totally sufficient so that when it appears, we will recognize it…

You said, “Now in this case we must believe that satan is clearly divided against satan, something Jesus scoffed at.
If anything fits the description of something that is the source of all false systems it is the very beast she is riding, she herself seems to be expendable.
and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.”

I have been thinking about this isse of “Satan cannot be divided against Satan” lately, especially as I have been watching this excellent video series called “Know your Enemy” by the “Fuel Project” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDGl79x4Pc&feature=related)…

As the series progresses through the various historical stages of the Babylonian “Mystery religions”, one thing that I do not believe can be denied is that time and time again, we actually do see Satan casting aside various occult systems, abandoning certain false religions, having new pagan empires overthrow old ones, etc., whenever it suits his purposes… We must remember that Satan really cares nothing about individual human beings, or even droves of us. Humans are regarded as being completely expendable in his overall agenda. He thinks nothing of throwing out even entire occult systems “under the bus” if he deems it necessary. He doesn’t care in the slightest if the names of false demon-“gods” are changed a hundred times over, because in the end the names don’t matter. Yes, Satan wants to be worshipped, but again since He is not God and does not have a heart like God’s, we must conclude he ultimately does not even desire the same kind of “true worship” from humankind. No amount of satanic worship will ever satisfy him, and in the end he will always end up despising even those who devote their entire selves to serving him…

I feel quite drawn to the conclusion that when Jesus made His statement about “Satan cannot be divided against Satan”, we must remember that He was talking about the casting OUT of an evil spirit… This is definitely something we would never see Satan, or the demonic host do. The last thing they are going to do is anything that would reveal who they really are, and what they are really striving to accomplish (i.e. deceiving people in order that we might share their fate in hell…) The phrase “Satan cannot be divided against Satan” essentially means that everything the devil does always promotes further deception, because that’s his whole game…

As I think about it, it makes perfect sense that Satan, the “Beast”, would eventually turn on his “Bride of Satan”, his “church”, the Whore, which he has cultivated since the beginning of history. After all, Satan is the total opposite of God. God loves His bride and died for her, Satan despises his whore, and has only ever seen her as a means to his own self-absorbed ends… At the end of the day, Lucifer only loves himself…

Also, much of your new position seems to hinge on the idea you outlined when you said, “and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.”

But the more I think about this, the more I fear that such an inferance is not terribly convincing. I don’t see anything in Rev. 18:7 that would indicate that when she says, “I sit as a Queen, I will never mourn”, that she believes so because of any connection to the One True God…

Overall though, I am really grateful for these two posts about this topic, because it has prompted me to think about all this on a level that I had never done before. I greatly appreciate your heart for the full counsel of scripture, and that you take seriously what it says about the Last Days…

Much peace to you friend…

You have your administations mixed up. Nation, partakings Gentiles blessed through them, bride and friends, earthly kingdom postponed for the secret calling of the one new man, revealed post hope of Israel which ended at Acts 28:26-28. No more Jew first, no more hope of Israel till after the secret of the one new man is full and seated in heaven.

Grace, Glen.

So if its happening in the millennium, I dont see why it shouldn’t happen in the New Jerusalem.

I dont think so. It seems to be bringing more clarity on the earlier issue about the Day of the Lord at that point. This pattern is seen in Daniel 7 , Matthew 24, and Revelation, where an overview is first given and then it goes back to fill in some of the details and give specifics.

Derek, Zechariahs main concern in his prophecy is Jerusalem indeed! His book was in part to encourage people to continue its rebuilding, and to let them know that it had a glorius future, and it does. But I believe what is in view in here is the “New Jerusalem”

Compare this passage about new Jerusalem:

Rev 22:1 Then the angel showed me the river of the water of life,
bright as crystal, flowing from the throne of God and of the Lamb
Rev 22:2 through the middle of the street of the city; also, on
either side of the river, the tree of life with its twelve kinds of
fruit, yielding its fruit each month. The leaves of the tree were for
the healing of the nations.
Rev 22:3 No longer will there be anything accursed, but the throne of
God and of the Lamb will be in it, and his servants will worship him.
Rev 22:4 They will see his face, and his name will be on their foreheads.
Rev 22:5 And night will be no more. They will need no light of lamp
or sun, for the Lord God will be their light, and they will reign
forever and ever.

Rev 21:23 And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.
Rev 21:24 And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it.
Rev 21:25 And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

with Zecheriah:

Zec 14:7 And there shall be a unique day, which is known to the LORD,
neither day nor night, but at evening time there shall be light.
Zec 14:8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem,
half of them to the eastern sea and half of them to the western sea.
It shall continue in summer as in winter.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD will be king over all the earth. On that day
the LORD will be one and his name one

.

The issue people have trouble with is solved if you have a bible that shows you where the original paragraphs begin and end. That way you can see when there is a shift from one subject to another. For example it is abundantly clear that the first part of Zech 14 is speaking of the future Day of The Lord, spoken of in Revelation. Examples include:

Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
Zec 14:3 Then shall the LORD go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle.
Zec 14:4 And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

But at some point he jumps to a future Jerusalem, as evidenced by the earlier quote about the river and there not being day or night.

Im sure you would agree, and therefore the millineal Jerusalem is not in view here, in fact Zecheriah skips that time period altogether, and it makes sense that he does if his puropse is to tell of the future of the city.

But the one problem I had with this is what follows:

Zec 14:12 And this shall be the plague wherewith the LORD will smite all the people that have fought against Jerusalem; Their flesh shall consume away while they stand upon their feet, and their eyes shall consume away in their holes, and their tongue shall consume away in their mouth.

Now if this was chronological then I am totally wrong, but if you look at this in context and ask yourself who are “all the people that have fought against Jerusalem” you will find that he is referencing now the earlier part of this prophecy:

Zec 14:1 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
Zec 14:2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.

Which is clearly premillinal. Again it is obvious if you have a NKJV or NASB which shows where the orginal paragraphs are, you will see that there is a sharp change between verse 11 and verse 12…

verse 11 ends with peace forever, verse 12 is back in the day of the lord (the time of jacobs trouble)

“8 On that day living waters shall flow out from Jerusalem, half of them to the eastern sea [3] and half of them to the western sea. It shall continue in summer as in winter. 9 And the Lord will be king over all the earth. On that day the Lord will be one and his name one. 10 The whole land shall be turned into a plain from Geba to Rimmon south of Jerusalem. But Jerusalem shall remain aloft on its site from the Gate of Benjamin to the place of the former gate, to the Corner Gate, and from the Tower of Hananel to the king’s winepresses. 11 And it shall be inhabited, for there shall never again be a decree of utter destruction. [5] Jerusalem shall dwell in security. 12 And this shall be the plague with which the Lord will strike all the peoples that wage war against Jerusalem: their flesh will rot while they are still standing on their feet, their eyes will rot in their sockets, and their tongues will rot in their mouths. 13 And on that day a great panic from the Lord shall fall on them, so that each will seize the hand of another, and the hand of the one will be raised against the hand of the other. 14 Even Judah will fight at Jerusalem. And the wealth of all the surrounding nations shall be collected, gold, silver, and garments in great abundance. 15 And a plague like this plague shall fall on the horses, the mules, the camels, the donkeys, and whatever beasts may be in those camps. 16 Then everyone who survives of all the nations that have come against Jerusalem shall go up year after year to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, and to keep the Feast of Booths. 17 And if any of the families of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the Lord of hosts, there will be no rain on them. 18 And if the family of Egypt does not go up and present themselves, then on them there shall be no rain; [6] there shall be the plague with which the Lord afflicts the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 19 This shall be the punishment to Egypt and the punishment to all the nations that do not go up to keep the Feast of Booths. 20 And on that day there shall be inscribed on the bells of the horses, “Holy to the Lord.” And the pots in the house of the Lord shall be as the bowls before the altar. 21 And every pot in Jerusalem and Judah shall be holy to the Lord of hosts, so that all who sacrifice may come and take of them and boil the meat of the sacrifice in them. And there shall no longer be a trader in the house of the Lord of hosts on that day.”

The quality of the presentation was excellent, Thank you for taking the time to produce such good quality material.

Derek check this audio out about that.
http://prewrathrapture.com/radio/show070718.mp3
http://prewrathrapture.com/radio/show070808.mp3

For great sound, I’d recommend buying a “snowball” off ebay. Make sure to be in a very quiet room and turn of any sounds that might come across as static. It will take a little getting used to, but eventually its a good deal.

I was honestly so relieved to see at the end how you mentioned the fact that those who buy into the idea of never having to endure persecution are being totally set up to actually worship the Anti-Christ. This teaching is really pretty scary, because it’s hard to see how the “Pre-Trib” position isn’t itself already a piece of the “Great Deception”. The Apostasia will be unprecedented in all of history because it will include the deception of the so many who call themselves “Christians”.

Lol, the website I got it from said it was called “Prelude in C”

The harlot certainly seems to be Jerusalem as has already been argued for here. Whether it’s historic or yet future will depend on your eschatalogical view – leaning towards partial-preterism myself, I’d say it’s historic Israel in the first century.

The beast he doesn’t really touch on other than to say it’s Satan. Certainly it’s Satanically empowered, but as I’ve already suggested here, I think first century Caesar/Rome is in view. The seven hills being Rome, the seven kings the emperors from Julius Caesar to Galba, with Nero being the sixth that “now is”, while the ten horns are possibly the ten senatorial governors that oversaw the ten provinces of the Roman Empire under Caesar. Much more could be said for this view, but I’m already rambling. 😛

Personally I think he reads too much into the “hour” linkage. Just because there’s scriptural precedent for the use of a certain word or phrase, it doesn’t mean they’re necessarily connected. An hour is just a short amount of time, whether it’s “the hour of darkness” or ten kings who reign for “one hour”. In this case I don’t think they’re linked – to say the ten horns are spiritual rulers seems a little too abstract…what’s the point in mentioning ten specifically if we can’t identify them in the real world? Besides which, Jesus overcoming them is spoken of in the future tense from the time of John’s writing. One partial preterist interpretation is that these ten horns did receive power during the Roman civil war, when the centralised power of Caesar was missing (after Nero’s suicide and just before Jerusalem’s destruction).

The mighty angel in Rev 18 being the devil also seems kind of spurious, at least to me. This angel is coming out of heaven, with great authority, pronouncing God’s message of destruction on Babylon. Doesn’t seem like a job for the devil. At other times in Revelation the devil is clearly identified as the dragon, or the beast, so a huge shift in symbolism here seems unlikely. This angel doesn’t seem to play a big part either – he’s quickly followed by “another voice from heaven” in vs 4, and “a mighty angel” in vs 21, never to be seen again.

I don’t tend to buy the whole conspiracy thing either. Revelation is a very difficult book to understand on any eschatalogical scheme; I don’t think conspiracies need to be invoked to explain people’s confusion over it. That said, sensational interpretations DO tend to be more popular than others, of that there can be little doubt.

I admire him for thinking for himself though, especially when it cuts against popular thought. That’s my 2 cents anyway. Hope that helps dude.

http://www.youtube.com/user/Christinjapan#p/u/2/22Suh-MQ1zk

“You shall not finish going through the cities of Israel, until the Son of Man comes.” – (Matt. 10:23)

“And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. Truly I tell you, all this will come on this generation.” – (Matt 23:35-36; said only a few verses before Matt 24)

“Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” – (Matt 24:34; said after your two quotes, D)

“These are the days of vengeance, in order that all things which are written may be fulfilled.” – (Lk. 21:22)

“From now on, you [Caiaphas, the chief priests, the scribes, the elders, the whole Sanhedrin] shall be seeing the Son of Man sitting at the right hand of Power, and coming on the clouds of heaven.” – (Matt. 26:64; Mk. 14:62; Lk. 22:69)

“Daughters of Jerusalem, stop weeping for Me, but weep for yourselves and for your children. For behold, the days are coming when they will say, ‘Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bore, and the breasts that never nursed.’ Then they will begin to say to the mountains, ‘Fall on us,’ and to the hills, ‘Cover us.'” – (Lk. 23:28-30; Compare Rev. 6:14-17)

And that’s just for starters; many, many more examples could be given. How do you get around so many clear statements by Jesus indicating the timing of his “coming”, whatever that even means? Pull a sleight of hand and unnaturally make “generation” mean “race”? Try to throw “this generation” into the far flung future, totally disconnected from what his disciples were asking about in the Olivet discourse (“when shall these things (temple being torn down/end of the age) be?”)? Invoke the ever-handy though usually arbitrary dual-fulfilment principle? Even so, how do you get away from the sheer emphaticness of Matt 24:34-35?

What’s more, when Luke 21 is read side-by-side with Matt 24, it sounds all the more like 70AD is in view. Luke seems to interpret some difficult Hebrew idioms for his Gentile readers and so ends up sounding least end-of-the-worldy. We might have to shift our understanding of what’s meant in Matthew – i.e, what is the “end of the age”? The end of the world, or the end of God’s dealings exclusively with Israel, shifting from the Old covenant to the New? Is it tribes of the Earth mourning, or tribes of the land (Israel)? (The Greek word “ge” can mean either) Is it angels gathering the elect from all the world, or human messengers (preaching the gospel to the world, still ongoing today)? (The Greek word “angelos” simply means “messengers” – supernatural angels are inferred from context).

Remember that Matthew is by far the most thoroughly Jewish of the gospels, steeped in OT imagery, idioms and allusions. We should be very careful in how we understand it.

As I’ve said to Chris privately, I’m not dogmatic on any eschatalogical position, and I still have huge questions myself, but it is a very serious issue that needs hard and honest thought. At stake is the very integrity of Jesus Himself. If you’re willing to grant a major portion of the Olivet Discourse, and by extension Revelation, happened in 70AD, then that makes you a partial preterist…which is roughly where I am currently.

Your’s in Christ
Billy

So, has this happened yet? “For then there will be great distress, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again. If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened.“?

Or this? “At that time the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and all the nations of the earth will mourn. They will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of the sky, with power and great glory. And he will send his angels with a loud trumpet call, and they will gather his elect from the four winds, from one end of the heavens to the other.“?

When Rome destroyed the temple in 70 A.D., did it threaten the existence of all human life on the planet? Did Jesus come down? Did the nations of the earth mourn? Did the angels already gather the elect…???

Maybe the historians just forgot to include those bits…

In any case, are you sure the futurist position is as consistent as you make out? On what grammatical basis do we say that Jesus’ “this generation” in Matt 24 is any different than Jesus’ “this generation” of Matt 23, or indeed in the rest of Matthew? On what basis are we justified in inserting hidden gaps of thousands of years into numerous Old Testament prophecies (most notably in the book of Daniel), gaps that aren’t even hinted at in the text itself, gaps that weren’t “discovered” by the Church until Darby came along in the 1800s? Why do futurists feel they can re-interpret some of the imagery in Revelation and not the rest, yet all the while retaining the honorific distinction of somehow remaining literal? (Think of Revelation’s locusts supposedly being Apache attack helicopters, or the 200 million horsemen being a literal 200 million man army from China, but not real horsemen riding real horses)

Why do we presume, as modern 21st century Western readers, that flamboyant prophetic imagery and deliberately cryptic apocalyptic symbolism should be taken literally in the first place? The more I study how NT writers, the early church, and even Jesus himself applied prophecy, frankly the more sure I am we’ve taken a wrong turning somewhere. I suppose the advantage of futurism is that no matter how strange the symbolism, it can always be thrown into the future and never disproven.

With regard to the woman that rides the beast, I still lean towards the preterist view that I suggested before, that the beast is Rome and that Israel, as typified by Jerusalem, is the harlot employing it for her own ends – the persecution of the saints. Chris has made the case for Jerusalem, while the identification of the beast as being seven hills/seven kings would have clearly been understood by 1st century Christians as describing the pagan Roman system ruling them. I just don’t see any reason to jump to the future on this one – the references to “all the world” or “all the kings of the earth” seem to be standard hyperbole used frequently in the bible, while the imagery of self-sufficient wealth and haughty abundance is lifted straight from Ezekiel’s description of Tyre’s downfall. Lets not forgot that Israel wasn’t exactly destitute among the nations – she sat on the trade corridor between Europe, Africa and Asia, profiting greatly from the merchants that passed through her. Even Josephus describes the wealth that came from sea merchants flowing into Jerusalem before it’s fall, when it was quite literally totally destroyed as this prophecy predicts.

And that’s not to mention the many time indicators that events are “about to take place”, “coming quickly”, “at hand”, “soon”, “at the door”, “this generation” etc, which seem to necessitate historic fulfilment soon after the prophecies were made. Ironic how it’s actually the futurist who ends up allegorising/minimising these time references – goes to show how false the supposed “literal vs allegorical” dichotomy is.

Ok! Then I guess we are essentially describing the same thing in the end, but somehow we were talking past each other for a little bit…

I’m not sure though why you’d think that I was saying that we have already seen this “powerhouse in action”… I wasn’t trying to say that, and if I miscommunicated then I apologize…

To say we must have already seen this particular powerhouse in action, is not taking it at face value, It is obvioulsy associated with the Antichrist’s kingdom. especially in the context of the book of revelation where almost everything in it is a future event.

I guess I just don’t see where I am “spiritualizing” any of the following verses in ch. 18, but instead I’m actually just taking them at their plain face value…

“The kings of the earth committed adultery with her, and the merchants of the earth grew rich from her excessive luxuries.”(vs. 3)

“Give her as much torment and grief as the glory and luxury she gave herself.” (vs. 7)

“The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes anymore….” (vs. 11)

“All your luxury and splendor have vanished, never to be recovered. The merchants who sold these things and gained their wealth from her will stand far off, terrified at her torment.” (vs. 14, 15)

“In one hour such great wealth has been brought to ruin!” (vs. 17)

” “‘Woe! Woe to you, great city, where all who had ships on the sea became rich through her wealth!” (vs. 18)

I don’t know, it almost seems like you got so excited about the parallels in your “word search” between the items listed in verses 12-13, and the items used in the temple, that somehow you want to make that THE solitary, definitive meaning behind all of chapters 17 and 18… While I agree there are probably some meaningful connections to be made there, we simply cannot ignore the overwhelming descriptions attributed to “Babylon the Great” as an economic powerhouse that lives in incredible luxury… Despite all the parallels with items used in temple worship, we must admit that the “merchants of the earth” are not going to grow rich simply by providing the things used in the temple. (How much incense do you think they would need!?) Also, when it lists “horses and carriages; and bodies and souls of men”, this would seem to include things that are beyond what is used in the temple, would you agree?

If we are being completely literal, and not “spiritualizing”, then how else are we supposed to understand where it says, “The merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her because no one buys their cargoes any more”..? To me, “no one” means NO ONE…

But beyond all this, I also don’t quite understand why overall you seem to be pushing back against anyone who would make a connection between the “great city” and any sort of broader system… This, again, is not necessarily a case of people “allegorizing”, but is simply an acknowledgement of basic facts. Cities are not merely comprised of buildings, walls, streets and people. They are systems of cooperation, whereby the inhabitants agree on a singular system of trade (money), system of rule (government), and system of supply (infrastructure). Cities, by enlarge, are not “self-existent”, in that they rely on a wider swath of land or sea (or both) to provide food, water and materials. They cannot be regarded apart from their function as hubs of trade and commerce. Such a hub is exactly what I see being described in Rev. 17 & 18, and so whatever city is being talked about (and I agree that there is much evidence to suggest it is they physical location of Jerusalem), we MUST admit that it also describing some sort of a broader system as well…

Harry,
In regard to Revelation being a heresy.
This is the commentary from Clark on the verse in question.

Rev 2:23
“And I will kill her children with death – “That is, I will certainly destroy her offspring and memory, and thereby ruin her designs. Jezebel’s two sons, being both kings were both slain; and after that, all the seventy sons of Ahab; (2Ki_10:1); in all which the hand of God was very visible. In the same manner God predicts the destruction of the heretics and heresies referred to; see Rev_2:16. It should seem by the expression, I am he which searcheth the reins and the hearts, that these heretics lurked about, and sowed their pernicious doctrines secretly. But our Savior tells them that it was in vain, for he had power to bring their deeds to light, having that Divine power of searching into the Evilly and affections of men; and hereby he would show both them and us that he is, according to his title, The Son of God; and hath such eyes to pry into their actions, that, like a fire, they will search into every thing, and burn up the chaff which cannot stand his trial; so that the depths of Satan, mentioned in the next verse, to which this alludes, (Christ assuming here this title purposely) shall avail nothing to those who think by their secret craft to undermine the Christian religion; he will not only bring to light, but baffle all their evil intentions. See Rev_17:9.”

I suppose you would have to suggest that 2 kings is also heresy, as God did the same thing to Jezebel’ s children there.

http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

However, after listening to your recent study, I would like to share an observation I’ve made in my scriptural studies regarding the Woman of Revelation 17:

You’ve surmised that the epicenter of the Antichrist’s rule will be the actual, physical city of Jerusalem. Not only is it scriptural… but it’s also logical. What better place for the False-Christ to set up his rulership, in order to convince the world that he is in fact the True-Christ, than Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified? However, I think too much emphasis is put on trying to define the Woman literally and to confine her to a geographical location. The Woman, the great city that sits upon the many waters and is the mother of all the abominations of the earth is no more a physical city than she is a physical woman… she embodies the entire deceived Apostate World. The root meaning of the greek word Babylon is confusion. The Woman represents the ultimate confusion in the last days. Moreover, we know from Revelation 11 that the Two Witnesses will be killed in the physical city of Jerusalem where Christ was crucified. But the Holy Spirit wants us to see what that great city represents in a spiritual sense; the Woman represents spiritual depravity (Sodom) and spiritual captivity (Egypt). Though all eyes will be focused on the physical city of Jerusalem, it is that spiritual city of depravity and captivity that will envelop the entire Apostate world.

No, all roads do not lead to Rome or Egypt or even Heaven for that matter; I’m sorry we can still have love but everybody dose not get to the promised-land.

But also, if you are going to dismiss the bulk of Revelation as merely “spiritual events” that John was feebly trying to describe, then essentially such a perspective would defeat the whole purpose of John having the vision, and writing it down, in the first place.

Jesus is coming back. This is not merely a “spiritual event”, it will be very physical, and visible to the entire world. Similarly, the events which precede His return will be very real, very physical, even if they are indeed inseperably connected to realities in the spiritual realm…

http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

Your’s in Christ
Billy

I just finished listening to this in full and would like to say 2 things, one Thank you for the research you have put into this thus far. I have always on my own studies always felt that power would move from Rome to Jerusalem and I am NOT one to pigeon hole myself into any certain Eschatology cuz I can literally understand the Biblical Basis of all of them save Full preterism. This study you have brought to light reinforces and articulates the beliefs and what I have felt the Holy Spirit was already moving in me to come to believe. The way you connected the Spices Gold Silver ect to all Rebuild the Temple rang true as soon as you spoke it, almost shockingly so. Also the simple Exegesis of the Great City, I cant believe this has been so over looked, its like blatant but I never put it together!!!

Second thing Id like to say is please do a movie I would love to understand and have a more detailed and better laid out version of all that you just went over so I can easily share this concept with others and put it on the sites I visit. At the end you said you might not do the movie please do I think many would whether they agree or not do well to learn the info you have laid out here.

If you dont have the time or choose not to I understand, if that is the case could you please provide me with other sources and those who also are researching this Ideology so I can learn more in depth about it?

Thanks, keep up the wonderful work and may YHWH continue to bless you in your walk with Him!!!

-Daciple

David,
I understand your concerns as they were my exact concerns a few days ago. I used to hold the same view as you do (from what I can tell) on this issue.

OK, so you say:

“I am not disputing the “harlotry”. I am disputing that Jerusalem is the MOTHER of Harlots, and the MOTHER of Abominations on the Earth.”

I think the problem is that you (and me formerly) assumed that Mother of Harlots had to mean the mother of all false religion from the beginning of time, I think that if you review these two chapters you will find that that is a belief based entirely on the word “Mother.” There is nothing else that would make a person reject the notion that these chapters are talking about a particular one time future harlotry (with the beast) that results in a world government / religion / and persecution.

There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this woman has to be the source of all idolatry etc. In fact I would suggest that the text refutes such a notion. For instance the woman is eventually turned on and destroyed by the ten kings who are under the control of the beast:

Rev 17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire,

Now in this case we must believe that satan is clearly divided against satan, something Jesus scoffed at.
If anything fits the description of something that is the source of all false systems it is the very beast she is riding, she herself seems to be expendable.
and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.

I would suggest that the idea of being a “Mother” of something is explained in this very same context by the prophet Hosea.

Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
Hos 2:1 (next verse after chapter break) Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
Hos 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
Hos 2:3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.

Hsa 4:5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.

Hsa 10:14 Therefore shall a tumult arise among thy people, and all thy fortresses shall be spoiled, as Shalman spoiled Betharbel in the day of battle: the mother was dashed in pieces upon [her] children.

The idea is that Jerusalem is the mother of harlots, that is people that commit the worship of a false God, in this case Satan himself.
The concept of Jerusalem being a mother seems to be well used, Paul in the NT says:

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

As I said I used to think this passage about the woman meant that I had to look for something that was the source of all evil in the history of the world, but I dont think the word “mother” necessitates that. Everything that is described is a perfect match with all the other scriptures, if it is referring to a future event, a future kingdom, a future persecution.

In regard to the Zec quote. I think that quote agrees far more with my position than it does yours. If you know much about E-sword you can see what I mean by clicking here
https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/email/New%20folder/Untitled-1%20copy.jpg

As Chris highlights here, it’s not without scriptural precedent that Israel is called a harlot, and Rome was always known as the city on seven hills.

I’m not certain on anything to do with prophecy nowadays, having rejected a lot of dispensationalist teaching, but purely for balance I thought the preterist view would be worth bringing up for those who haven’t heard it. Seems to be at least a possibility to me.

Maybe I wasn’t paying attention well, but I am confused about something here

Matthew 24 says the following: 15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

Then Rev. says this: 13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

I get that the Abomination of Desolation is the Anti-Christ, who is also the beast that the harlot sits on. I also understand that the Dragon is Satan, as he is identified in Revelation.

So, who is it that peruses Israel? Is it the Anti-Christ or Satan?

Is it simply the words “great city”? I listened to that part a couple times, but wasn’t sure how exactly you made the connection…

I do also think people need to understand that, as you said, what we would be talking about here is total global system here, merely centered in Jerusalem (as I think I understand what you’re outlining), and so when read all those verses which talk about how the merchants and seafareres stand far off because no one buys their cargoes anymore, we are actually reading about a total worldwide economic collapse. Those verses would not make a great deal of sense if they were talking strictly about the confines of the physical city itself, as opposed to an entire global system…

I am not disputing the “harlotry”. I am disputing that Jerusalem is the MOTHER of Harlots, and the MOTHER of Abominations on the Earth.

“BABYLON THE GREAT,” the MOTHER of the harlots and the MOTHER of abominations of the earth which is written on the woman’s forehead, was a secret sign or symbol. It does not, of course, mean that this is an actual woman, so let’s get that out of the way. The explanation of what the woman represented is not given until the very last verse of the chapter, so until then the meaning of the name was a secret. Then at the end of the chapter it is revealed that it referred to “that great city” (Revelation 17:18). The word Mystery here or musterion means simply a secret.

So here, in Revelation 17:5-6, the woman’s name is a secret sign and means something deeper than the name itself could convey. So, in Revelation 17:18 we see that the name was the name, not of a woman, but of a city, “that great city”. And I believe that city is Babylon. Why? Stay with me on this. THIS Babylon, is not signified merely by the material city itself, BUT by the ENORMOUS SYSTEM of idolatry connected with it. That is why the explanation to the secret sign name follows, and that is “the MOTHER of harlots and the MOTHER of abominations of the earth.”

Now, Chris, this is not merely of Babylon, as a city, but “of the WHOLE earth”, that is the MOTHER, or originator, the fountain-head of ALL the systems of idolatry which have since covered “the earth” from that one great source. Jerusalem, Rome, London, even Washington, are only a part. This here is the secret of “the mystery of iniquity” referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. It was Babylon that was the fountain-head of ALL idolatry.

I refer you again to Zechariah, “And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a WOMAN that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, THIS IS WICKEDNESS. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the LAND OF SHINAR: and it shall be ESTABLISHED, and set there upon her own base.” Zechariah 5:7-11

So back to Revelation 17, we have here two things, ONE is the reality of the city itself, which is that “great city,” which will be seen by those not yet initiated into Satanic worship; and TWO, the woman, which is the “secret sign” of what that means. The image of the woman is like the Stage Curtain. However, those that HAVE been initiated into the worship of Satan are those who will be allowed behind the curtain, in order to learn “the depths of Satan”. Now, the uninitiated will see only the stage curtain, which is the wonderful city. Proverbs 9:13-18, gives a nice view of this where both are shown.

Ok, next point, IDOLATRY was not a sin into which people gradually sunk, but it was the creation, by Satan, of a huge compliocated system of methods, which he intended to lead to his own worship. So how did it get perfected, where is it’s MOTHER?

It was NIMROD that was used as the founder of this scheme of Satan. and…wait for it…BABYLON was his city (Genesis 10:10). Now consider this…wouldn’t Cain’s city, before the flood, be of the same type to the people of his day? And Cain’s city comes to the same end as Babylon does afterwards (Genesis 4:17). Each of these cities would be the capital of their respective idolatrous systems.

Now look here, the words “Cain went out from the presence of the Lord” are very significant. So is the name of Cain’s city. He called it Enoch, which actually means INITIATED (coming from the root: chahnak, meaning to initiate or dedicate). The corruption of the human race spoken of in Genesis 6 led to abnormals, which would account for the half-human, or super-human beings, which became the Nephilim, the Rephaim, and the Anakim of Scripture, (the Titans of Greek Mythology). It would also account for the worship of Ishtar, Isis, Ashtaroth, and all the abominations of Spiritual Harlotry.

Ok, so from ALL this we can see how “that great city,” BABYLON, founded by Nimrod, was the SOURCE or the MOTHER of all idolatry.

This CANNOT be said of Egypt, Rome, Jerusalem, London, etc. The idolatry being carried out in Jerusalem or Rome are only parts of the system; part of the polluted streams from that SOURCE, BABYLON. It is just not possible that one of the many streams can be the source of all the streams. So, Chris, I have to ask you. Wasn’t there idolatry before Jerusalem, before Rome, before Athens?

So you have to ask yourself, where did the worship of Moloch, and Remphan, and Chium, come from? They had to ORIGINATE, and be MOTHERED somewhere BEFORE they were practiced in the wilderness (Acts 7:43. Amos 5:25-26). And then consider the worship of Ashtoreth, the abomination of the Zidonians, and Chemosh, the abomination of the Moabites, and Milcom, the abomination of the children of Ammon, all of which were introduced by Solomon (1 Kings 11:5, 2 Kings 23:11), but certainly had existed BEFORE Solomon? Was JERUSALEM the MOTHER of these?

So what have we learned here? We have learned that the descriptions seen in these verses goes back to the ORIGIN, the MOTHER of ALL the abominations of heathen idolatry. Jerusalem’s place in history makes this an absolute impossibility. It would be just as ridiculous to say that the Zionist movement of the last century and today was the SOURCE or the MOTHER of the Nation of Israel!

Now, let’s take a look at something further…the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar’s day, is NOT the Babylon being referenced in Revelation 17! And for the same reason that it is NOT Jerusalem, Egypt, Rome, etc. THESE cities do NOT date back far enough. We must go back further, and we do indeed find the TRUE Source or MOTHER in Genesis 10:8-10 and Genesis 11:9. There we find the MOTHER of harlots in the land of Shinar. (See the Zechariah reference again).

Under Nimrod the work in the spirit of Antichrist began. Nimrod’s object was to build a city, and make for HIS People a name, so that they might not be scattered. BABYLON was founded in rebellion against God.

Nimrod was “a mighty one on the earth” (Genesis 10:8). He called his city Bab-El. Some interpretors take this to mean the court or gate of God; because Nimrod, like his FUTURE, antitype, would phonely exalt himself (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

So there you have it!

Grace be to you and peace, from God: our Father, and The LORD Jesus Christ.

In The LORD Jesus Christ,
The Lion and Lamb Ministry

Pastor David Picos

Alot of people who got into this study seriously ditched the idea of Rome, but it’s understandable why people think that way.

The “harlotry” is always defined as spiritual harlotry all throughout the bible, that is, worshiping false gods, bringing offerings to them etc. The harlotry is spiritual harlotry and Worshipping Satan as The God of Gods is the biggest and worst harlotry that has ever been done in history. Not to mention that this harlotry will be extended to the entire world. And those that dont worship the Antichrist will be killed. That martyrdom exceeding anything that has ever existed in history as well, which according to Daniel, Matthew, and John has its epicenter in Judea after the abomination of Desolation, and it is in that sense that Jerusalem will be drunk with the blood of the martyrs including the two witnesses.

Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

Just let me throw a few thoughts out there at you:

1) “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman” Rev. 17:3

“And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the LAND OF SHINAR: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.” Zechariah 5:7-11

2) Revelation 17:1, “The great whore that sitteth upon MANY peoples

Does Jerusalem sit upon MANY peoples??

3) “And upon her forehead was a name written,
MYSTERY
BABYLON THE GREAT
THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

Was Jerusalem the MOTHER of harlots? Was or Is Jerusalem the MOTHER of Abominations of the Earth?

4) Revelation 17:18, “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which REIGNETH OVER the kings of the earth.”

When or is Jerusalem REIGNING OVER the Kings of the Earth?

Ok, let me know your thoughts,

Grace be to you and peace, from God: our Father, and The LORD Jesus Christ.

In The LORD Jesus Christ,
The Lion and Lamb Ministry

Pastor David Picos

I think 2 Thessalonians 2 is interesting. Even to Book of Enoch appears to corroborate:

9 And after that in the seventh week shall an apostate generation arise, And many shall be its deeds,And all its deeds shall be apostate.

10 And at its close shall be elected The elect righteous of the eternal plant of righteousness,To receive sevenfold instruction concerning all His creation.- Enoch 93:9-10

There isn’t a mention of the Son of Perdition here, but it does seem to suggest that the righteous will be sequestered so that they may receive a revelation.

Rev. seems to be replete with this concept of a sevenfold manifestation of God, mostly within the context of the church: 4:5; 5:6; 3:1; 1:4.

This isnt really contradicting what you’ve said, but its not “just” about the “sex, drugs, & rock&roll”. You can take just about any big Contemporary Christian musician, and see their music and symbolism loaded with the occult, as much as your pop musicians even. They arent promoting sex or debauchery, yet Satan is directly accessing young Christians on a deep level with this stuff, in a way that I don’t believe we understand, all under the safety of Christianity.

If you listen to John Todd (born-again music exec who was assassinated), his understanding was that the music specifically draws from the powers of Satan to cast spells on Christians, and that this is a known thing within the industry.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=john+todd

You can read the whole article in here:
http://koti.phnet.fi/petripaavola/occurrencesoftheendtime.html

Thanks,

Ryan

It’s amazing and depressing how people are just experiencing as new what I went through already and when I speak of the words of Jesus and even demonic or satanic principals, there are very few people who want to hear it. We are at a head of hedonism and it’s boggling that many women who have children are promoting homo-sexuality here on Vancouver Island. Much to be seen and to be understood but there is some defecit of honest family approach to humanity in Canada these days. Peace and keep up the good work.

As for me, I really enjoyed the first video and I’m about to watch the second…Definitely interesting stuff and I’m totally undecided on Pre-trib, Post-trib or Pre-Wrath…I with LA Marzulli on Pan-Trib 🙂 Anyway, keep up the good work Chris, I really appreciate and benefit from all that you do, so THANK YOU!

I’ll be looking forward to your video on prophecy. My first teaching on prophecy was strictly pre-trib, dispensational, as I think is the case for many nowadays. I quickly came to question the pre-trib scheme of things however, seeing how ad-hoc and contrived much of it was. Now after investigating the many views on prophecy out there, including amillennialism and preterism, frankly I’m not dogmatic on any position. They all seem to have some truth to them, but as yet I haven’t been able to put them together in a cohesive paradigm. The events of 70 AD certainly seem to be of far larger importance than many dispensationalists admit, but I’m not sure that’s the whole story either. It’ll be fun to see what you make of it all Chris.

Just a heads up for those “MP3 junkies” out there, I recently came across a great reading of “Answers to Prayer, from George Müller’s Narratives”:

http://librivox.org/answers-to-prayer-from-george-mullers-narratives-by-george-muller/

It’s totally free, great quality (the reader is clear and doesn’t stumble), and is a great boost to faith. Many here have probably already read Muller, but for those (like me) who haven’t, this is a real eye opener to the power of trusting in God. Well worth the time listening to it.

God bless all,
Scotty

I’m concerned that you ignorantly, or GOD forbid, knowingly lead men into deception with this doctrine of men concerning fallen angles? You, Russ, Guzik, Missler, Schnoeblen and even Maxwell seem to be all obsessed with demonology. Angels cannot have sex, nor can demons. Really think about what you are saying and how much imagination has to go into showing why it has never happened again.

We know that GOD created all creatures after their kind, each to reproduce according to their kind and their kind alone. And for man he formed women, flesh of his flesh, bone of his bone. Birds cannot mate with fish, fish cannot mate with beast, beast and man are not designed to mate, and none can reproduce with any other. Hybridization exist only within the same species or kind; ie, horse + donkey =mule, Sparrow+falcon=Farrow(?) Wolf +Doge =husky, Lemon +orange= grapefruit or Tribe1+Tribe2= new tribe of people (with humans it’s a little less cut and dry being that we all come from Adam and Eve). Nonetheless, to every seed GOD gave his own body, and the celestial creatures have different bodies than the terrestrial creatures. Even if angles could mate and reproduce they can’t do it with us, they can only seduce and at best cause us to have spiritual intercourse and wet dreams.

The reason why the sons of GOD are always referred to as angels is because the world after the flood and after Abraham is a different world than the one Noah was born into, there are 12 sons of GOD listed in Genesis, 13 if you include Adam. There may have been others, but these are the only ones listed. Luke corroborates this in his genealogy calling Adam “the son of GOD”. Even David and Jesus both say we are children of the Most High. Where does it ever say demons are children of GOD. This is the most dangerous teaching I have ever heard in my life. One that I am sure Satan is smiling and laughing at. The appellation of the sons of GOD in reference to man ended with Noah and was restored in Christ Jesus, the one who ushered in the Kingdom of Heaven and the Way of Life once up-kept by Noah and those twelve listed before him. Abel would have been numbered amongst them had he lived.

I think you believe you saw things and understand things about the spiritual realm, but you must understand that Satan is using the Gentiles nations to intellectualize the simple word of GOD, and many of us fail to understand that Satan know scripture better than everyone of us. The more I listen to you is the more I start to believe you are on the same team as Jordan Maxwell, but there is something in your voice that makes me think that you sincerely belong to the Lord. But the teaching of fallen angles being anything other than bastards, let alone the sons of GOD, is one of the most damnable heresies next to blaspheming the Wholly Spirit. GOD Bless you are yours.

Location =
https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/category/ntr_podcasts/page/21/

Title =
“Nowhere to Run – The Many Mistakes of Michael Tsarion”

Ok, I’ll not post anymore link etc.-faults.
Till you correspond and let me know if…
1. You can erase these (don’t want to muck up your posted materials here by admin pointer-comments)
2. Weather you want me to continue pointing out broken links (maybe 10x more I think)
3. And If you do want me to ‘help’ in this way.. By what route do you want me to alert you ?

Am going through all of you materials at the moment so you may as well make use of me while I’m at it.

Respect to you and your inspiring (and damn informative) works.

Location =
https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/category/ntr_podcasts/page/21/

Title =
“Nowhere to Run 10-02-07”

Location =
https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/category/ntr_podcasts/page/21/

Title =
“Nowhere to Run 9-27-07 Zeph Daniel interview”

Location =
https://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/category/ntr_podcasts/page/21/

Title =
“Nowhere to Run 9-11-07 Robert Duncan O’Finioan interview”

Without resources into the many fields, most of us would be still in the shadow of mainstream churches. Would the same go with books that deal with subjects other than from a Christian writer!

Chris it sounds like you need to wear the trousers, both getting you out of the bedroom and also thinking without strings attached.

Also was not happy about your Wikipedia based research into Ashkenazis and DNA. Are you that foolish to believe what wikipedia states, or what mainstream wants the masses to think? The whole experiments on DNA was illogical as it used samples that are not valid, and therefore false, yet you couldn’t see the faults in the premise of the tests. Another situation of you being ignorant or being deceptive.

No offence but you have seemed to have drop the baton on the floor, so to speak.

i cant comment on the issues raised yet as i have just uploaded the show on my mp3 player and am about to isten to it while doing my post round.

but im sure it will be good they allways are.

keep up the good … no amazing work.

god bless

david

http://sojournmusic.bandcamp.com/album/split-ep-jamie-barnes-the-mercy-seat-brooks-ritter-the-war

http://www.myspace.com/dirtpoorrobins

http://www.myspace.com/sojournrecords

crowley’s motto was “do as thou wilt shall be the whole of the law – love under will.”

when we understand that God *is* love it becomes clear what crowley was really saying:

1 john 4:15
Whosoever shall confess that Jesus is the Son of God, God dwelleth in him, and he in God. 16And we have known and believed the love that God hath to us. **God is love**; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in God, and God in him.

so it is not innaccurate to say or to perceive 99% of hollywood as satanic – because 99% of the time it is exalting the will to pleasure & the will to power above God & God’s will.

i’ve got a radio station on pandora i’ve been setting up.
i’m calling it body of Christ rejoycing.
http://www.pandora.com/?sc=sh357507593317783259

I’ve actually really been wrestling with lots of those kinds of questions lately, the more we look at this very real possibility of an economic collapse or whatever other apocalyptic scenario…

I’ve found myself asking those very questions, and to be honest, I almost emailed you a couple times to ask what you thought about these things… I’ve wondered, “Do I need to be storing up food and water?”, “Should we be stockpiling medical supplies?”, “What about seeds, or survival gear, or maybe even a gun?” (and we’re not “gun people”, so it’s weird that I was even thinking such a thing…)

At some point, it definitely starts to feel like such thinking is veering away from true faith, and like you said, you’re starting to put your faith in the idea of a stockpiled bunker in your basement, instead of the God of the Universe… I know we’re supposed to prudent, and prepared for things, but I totally just want to say “Amen” to your point that there has to be a balance. We can’t possibly prepare for every single scenario, and even the most “prepared” person on the planet (who maybe has years and years worth of stuff stashed away somewhere…) who doesn’t put their faith in God, is still a thousand times more vulnerable than a person who does trust God, and maybe only has the shirt on their back…

(on a seperate note, I hate those ghost-hunter type shows as well… The one that really makes me irate is this one called “Psychic Kids”, where they go and find children who can see spirits. They always bring in a “professional psychic” who is there to help the children “develop their powers” and feel more “empowered” against the spirits who are tormenting them. It’s the aweful irony of the “good cop, bad cop” approach by the demonic realm, whereby they terrorize children & families in order to actually drive them deeper into the occultic/demonic realm and deeper into bondage…)

Peace to you in Christ Jesus, brother Chris…

Just curious, what do you think about “ghost objects”? Like ghost trains or ghost ships. Ghosts whose forms are not human. I’ve even heard of people seeing whole armies of ghost, like those of the civil war repeating the same pattern.

I can understand individual ghosts in human form being demons, but what do we make of these other things? Do you think they exist?

Thanks and God bless.

One thing in particular that I’ve seen pop up many times is the use of the verse in Matthew 24 where it says, “But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be…”.

Many times I’ve heard this verse used to try and prove the idea that Nephilim will be all over the earth in the Last Days, but when you read the actual text, Jesus explains the comparison He is making… This article here (http://stopalienabduction.com/nephilimhybrids/wordpress/?page_id=41) totally zeroes in on this very point, and rationally refutes this Nephilim-centric interpreation of Christ’s words. I found it very helpful, and I wish more people who seem to be obsessed with the whole Nephilim issue would stop and read it…

I think it would be appropriate to paraphrase David Guzik here:

2 Corinth 12:8- “Concerning this thing I pleaded with the Lord three times that it might depart from me.”

-so Paul prays about his bodily infirmity. Upon the 3rd time, he didn’t have an answer. Upon the 3rd no answer, it bothered him.

-Unanswered prayer bothered him. So he sought God deeper, which God’s answer completely surprised Paul.

-it is important that we take heed by what we mean to be unanswered prayer. He could give me a no, yes or wait answer. Paul received an unanswered prayer. He would make Paul to triumph in this infirmity rather than over it. It was answered after deeper seeking.

I’ll be seeking and praying.

Awesome job. I was in tears by the end of this one. Prayer is a powerful thing. God Bless!

one note, first time here on the website, I noticed a typo at the top “recommendations”
is not spelled with two C’s, it’s two M’s 😉 peace

I know that’s a harder one to fix due to the photoshop graphics, but tell your designer who possibly already knows.

I absolutely love how todays truthers seem to forget about William Cooper, the guy who was studying and teaching the TRUTH in the 80s and unmasking the UFO movement, and uncovering the lies of Maxwell which he has been preaching since the 60s.

The sense of entitlement shows me just how unchristian he is, Jesus told us that we should NOT advertise how great we are, and keep our achievements to ourselves, because they are recorded in Heaven, and to spout our greatness is just vanity.

here Jordan explains that he is and always was completely AGAINST the “Aguarian New Age” BS etc, and why is he not married to Blavatsky nor pro-Blavatsky just because he read her stuff and mentioned her name and enjoyed her work (I did too)…instead of promoting the New Age BS, he’s warning against it and says it won’t be a happy ending (he always did)…also he is very pro-Jesus, but your holy Chris White never showed you these quotes from Jordan aka Russell…

If indeed he was/is “possessed by demons”, wouldn’t he PROMOTE the New Age Ideas like many of those people Chris White already “debunked”? Yet Jordan does the exact opposite, and he does not have a cult like Zeitgeist for example…

I agree with Chris on many issues, but he is totally wrong on Jordan…was a great show tho, Chris cleared a lot of things up for me…

Take care.

BTW, don’t angels usually tell the fearful recipients of their messages to FEAR NOT??

Maxwell is finished, he’s not the fighting kind and yet he had to come out fighting as a last ditched attempt to try to save his career. It just
goes to show how powerful the word is and how it cuts through the lies.

As far as the rapture timing goes, it has become such a divisive issue for believers and it shouldn’t. It’s not as salvation issue and we shouldn’t attack one another over it. However civil discussion about it is good. Anyways keep up the good work.

Really looking forward to your presentation on the Rapture Chris. There has been so much confusion about that subject, and I’ve never really understood why that could be, when scripture itself is actually pretty straightforward and clear about it. I totally agree that Matt 24 must be allowed to stand as a central part of one’s understanding of the Last Days. Why would we ignore what Jesus Himself has to say about the topic?

Also wish he let Chris talk for more than three words before getting cut off. And the host seemed anti-Chris as well.

I also appreciate very much your honesty and description concerning your battles with pornography. It was an encouragement to hear of another brother who has been down such a similar road as I have been and shared in the good grace of our God in order to experience victory time and again.

Praise the Lord!

Sodomy laws seem to have been derived from men and their personal opinions or feelings about sexual relations in the marriage bed. Where does our God given freedom in the marriage bed begin and end. Is it wrong for a wife to massage her husband or maybe to kiss or lick him in the areas that they so desire. What about kissing? Is it wrong to kiss with your tongues (French kiss)? Is it wrong to engage in to any sort of foreplay that is intended to arouse or satisfy your spouse other than the the act of vaginal intercourse and getting right to the procreative process? No hands? Just stick it in, get your business done and pull out? Some people have more enjoyable sex after they have been aroused before hand. Is it not considered natural use to have sex with your wife while she is pregnant because she cannot be re-fertilized? Or maybe if you or your wife have been injured and are not able to conceive children, than it would be considered unnatural and a crime against nature for you to have sexual intercourse just for pleasure not being able to procreate? Isn’t there a reason why God did not get into specifics about intercourse and foreplay in the marriage bed. Do we fashion our sexual practices after what gays do between themselves? Heterosexuals were here first and everything that homosexuals do is to perverted and mimics how we perform and enjoy sexual intercourse between a man and a woman. To label what homosexuals do involving sexual intercourse(other than anal sex of course being that it is totally unnatural) as gay behavior, then we might as well consider kissing and holding hands as something queer also right? They are the perversion, not a heterosexual married couple joined as one flesh choosing to explore and satisfy each other sexually. The Webster’s 1828 simply states sodomy to be a crime against nature. That’s it. They were smart enough not to make rules for the marriage bed between a man and a woman. A crime against nature is a man with a man or a woman with a woman. I just cannot see that a husband and wife are not allowed to sexually arouse each other in any other way or motive other than to conceive a child. Did Solomon want to have children with all of his wife’s and concubines? Did King David want to have a child with Beersheba?

I think that there have always been people who choose to see and feel more conservatively/extreme about things than others. And where the Bible rules the Bible rules I will not debate it. Better safe than sorry! But a lot of the original laws conceived in this country were extremely out of whack of good judgment. If you choose to respect one of them than they all must be golden right? The Puritans would punish wives for not having sex with thier husbands. Sodomy laws originaly seem to have been put into place by King Henry VIII . He was a believer in core Catholic theological teachings, even after his excommunication from the Roman Catholic Church. Henry is famously remembered for having six wives—two of whom he had beheaded—which helped to make him a cultural icon, with many books, films, plays, and television series based around him and his wives. Later in his life he became morbidly obese and his health suffered; his public image is frequently depicted as one of a lustful, egotistical, harsh and insecure king. This doesn’t sound like a man that should be regulating what goes on in a marriage bed. He also believed in burning witches and hanging sodomites? This seems to be where our countries sodomy laws originate from.

I just have a hard time seeing something that my wife and I choose to do in our marriage bed whether it be hand play or mouth foreplay as being something that is defiling the land as some choose to put it. I have yet to see the specific scriptures forbidding it.
I dont know if you have listened to any of Scott Johnsons teachings on the topic but he is very condeming and lacks solid research regarding why sodomy is defined the way that it is.
Anyways, thanks for being honest. Sorry, to make this so long and graphic but if christian couple truly are performing sodomy by oraly pleasing each other than sombody needs to do a better job proving it so that they can repent of thier sin.

“Conspiratainment”. I love it. I’ma hafta use that one.

Someone once told me you have 2-3 seconds to “fall into temptation”. Lust, for example. You see the thing, you recognize the potential for trouble, and you cast it out of your mind/look away and don’t look back. 5 seconds is too long. If you linger at all, it gets that much more difficult to pull yourself out of it…you’ve “fallen” into it. It happens THAT quickly.

Thought that was interesting.

I would also like to comment on the issue of pride that you mentioned, and to anyone that has a problem with it, I recommend you keep Romans 7:20-21 close at heart:

“20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.”

The desire to dominate others will always be with you, but it will be a part of you only if you let it. That desire is a part of a different person, and when it speaks its lies to your heart, you should treat it just as any person, that you know speaks lies to your ears. Simply smile, and ignore it, for it is just a lie.

At least, that is what i think.

with regards to the ARRAVILES it’s like zietgiest for the muslims, alot of lies and fabrications they have their own agends for brainwashing the muslims.

BBC, CNN, FOX, the Vatican, UN all these organisms who supposedly really really hate are actually jewish owned or heavily jewish influenced. I’m not saying to hate jewish people at all, but jewish people play the hatred card to invoke sympathy and support, that’s what victims looking for welfare do, not just jews, all victims, but jews do it harder and better than anyone. The world hates jews partly because jews propagate and endorse that hatred with their slogan of “anti-semitism”.

The world hates jews? That my friend is a very sentimental statement. I know you’re trying to be a good christian and all and you believe in biblical prophesies but this Jewish sentimentality is a little overboard man. I respect humanity and all people, but the world doesn’t hate jews, it’s sad to say but if the world hates anyone its black people or natives. I’ve never seen any humans get it like them. It’s hard for me to admit that, but when you say the world hates jews, I can’t accept that, your not speaking the truth anymore,. It’s obvious sentimentality based on some logically seeming doctrine of belief. If the world hated jews their would be no Israel, Hollywood, Music industry, no New York city.

Jews are alot of people scapegoats true, and thats not fair, but most people don’t even know why. It’s jewish owned media that makes people think they hate jews, when they really don’t. Tha’ts what’s happening today. Form what I see the world loves jews. I don’t believe in the Khazaria stuff either and I see you’re tryin to make sense of all this, which is always commendable but I’m not sure what your getting at with this one. The world hates its own children, but jews get alot of love in practical reality. You gotta reassess that stament.

Man, that just makes me even more bummed that I can’t be there…

I would so love to just be able to meet all of the speakers there (and other people who have been encouraged by them as well…)

Maybe I just need to take the initiative and sponsor an event so that all of you could come up to the Pacific NW? You guys can deal with a little rain, right?

I think in many Christians an “Ephesians” complex develops – being zealous for sound doctrine while losing your first love, as well as love for others. It’s a subtle snare, but one I’ve fallen in a few times, especially over the Calvinism/Arminianism debate. When I became a Calvinist I attacked others for denying Gods sovereignty and trying to glorify fallen human free-will, following the lead of the usual Calvinist attack dogs. When I came to see that wasn’t the whole story, I recoiled too far the other way, and attacked Calvinists for impugning God’s perfect moral character.

While I definitely lean more to the Molinist/Arminian side now, I try to be careful in dealing with the subject. Unless both parties in the debate are mature, and can talk theology rationally and calmly (i.e without taking offence), the debate just isn’t worth having. The damage done will far outweigh any possible benefits.

Just my 2 cents anyway. 😉
God bless all.

Allow me to help you on your pronunciation on the capital city of Scotland, o’bonnie Scotland.

It’s not Edinboro nor Edinburg.

It’s Edinburgh, here’s the break down.

[ed-n-bur-uh, or -buhr-uh]

to translate that, just say ” Ed-in-bu-ru ” Say it fast and not only do you have it nailed, say it with a deep tone and with a sprinkling of grit, and you might just pass off as Scottish!

Don’t worry i’m not a fascist of thee pronuciation world. It’s just that the last time i spoke to a couple of Americans, they told me with a big smile on their face that they had loved their stay in ” England ” and that they had especially enjoyed london,manchester and liverpool, but their fav part of England was Aberdeen… they told me this while standing in the middle of Glasgow lol!!!!!

Anyways, a light hearted note.

You grow with every podcast man, keep it up! Interesting stuff of le Jews.

I wanted to add that if David Icke is guilty of one thing, and I am completely objective in saying this, it is of being an arrogant and self-centered person, who failed to credit his sources to an adequate extent. I don’t see Icke as a ‘saviour’, not even as a prophet – I see him merely as a tool for research – I don’t agree with all he says but some of the things you pointed out in your video, are not included in that I’m afraid.

I have just finished watching your recent documentary, ‘David Icke Debunked’. I wish to congratulate you as you clearly put a lot of effort into many parts that were researched. Unfortunately there are a few discrepancies I need to point out. I myself am no christian, however, I am very open minded and won’t disregard any theory without proper analysis or sometimes even personal experience.
My first point I would like to address are the parts where you refer to David Icke’s sources as Madame Blavatsky, Alice Bailey and various other occult figures, predominantly freemasons. My question, do you believe that all of freemasonry is based initially on evil intentions? Was freemasonry not infiltrated by Adam Weishaupt’s crew prior to 1800 thus eradicating any benevolence over time? Therefore is it not plausible to think that both Madame Blavatsky as well as Manly Palmer Hall were in fact nothing more than shamans predicting the future, with the aid of the ascended masters, or rather the spiritual entities of Atlantis, so to speak? I still to this day entertain the belief that not all freemasons are part of this plan to control mankind – however, they are bound by brotherhood to aid any brother mason in need – that is the crucial issue here and of course root of this particular problem.
Secondly, you brushed David Icke’s (and others’) experiences in spiritual realms off as ‘questionable’ and ‘unreliable’ . The truth, you claim, lies only in Jesus. To this I will say that I was brought up christian and was pushed back into christianity in my early 20’s, by a good friend to this day, mainly due to misfortune and hardship. I turned to Jesus, confessed my sins, went to church, prayed and fasted….all for about 2 years. I cannot deny the sense of tranquility I initially felt, which is what kept me in it for that long. But as time grew, i found myself increasingly more miserable and depressed and many so-called christians in my life turned out to be very big hypocrites.
In fact, I realised that all I was doing, I was doing out of fear. The fear of Hell, The fear of failure…you get the picture. The more I turned to christianity, the more I felt I was surrounded by demons rather than angels. I ended up in despair with no christian caring and most of them mocking and insulting me.
It was during this time that I discovered the self….the Higher power within me. It had absolutely nothing to with any researchers, not David Icke nor Jordan Maxwell or Michael Tsarion. The reason? At that time I had only ever heard of Jordan Maxwell due to some programs I had seen in the 80/90’s. Both David and Michael were unknown to me. My awakening came not through any researcher but through the vision I experienced within myself, which made me realise where the real truth lies. I found that this truth lies only in pagan belief and not in christianity. Looking back at it, it’s been there all my life, I now know. I have come to realise that christianity (which made me extremly uncomfortable as a child) was the worship of non-existence and that being free and unmanipulated meant being true to oneself and not a God that demands worship and punishes you in the afterlife and thus makes you taxable after death. After all, how could an entity that preaches about altruism and forgiveness be so vindictive, cruel and unforgiving? If the christian holy trinity is indeed so very unconditional in terms of love and forgiveness…then it should no doubt forgive those who have fought it, not seek vengeance and annihalition of its enemies. I am, by the way, quoting the Bible directly and am not taking any vicar’s or priest’s word out of context.
Fact is, that the only peace that I feel is within my own self, through meditation and, what christians would call ‘occult’, rituals that are standard pagan practice of self-empowerment. Can you not see that the sheer notion of a ‘third party’ God in a biblical sense, is the ultimate form of mass manipulation and control – because it instigates fear NOT love. Would you therefore not say that anything based on love is therefore more benevolent than something stemmming from fear?
I can see and hear from you demeanour, that you are not an imbecile. In fact, you appear to be a very sensible human being, with many valid viewpoints and very little prejudice. It is for this reason I sat through 2 hours and 27 minutes of your documentary – even though I realised early into it, that you are a christian – and therefore don’t share my beliefs. As it stands I do not regret a minute of it and I am very eager to read your response.
Now, I have another question for you. In your opinion, what was the reason the conquistadores burnt such a multitude of ancient south american books? Many of the survivng literature indicates alien visitation and genetic manipulation, why has this been suppressed by followers of jesus christ? Even if none of it is true please explain to me why the christians would go to such lengths to suppress information instead of just being candid about everything and refusing to lie to its followers?
As it stands, we have unearthed in recent decades, that satanic rituals are indeed practised by not just business moguls and politicians, but also priests, bishops and popes. Judging from the history of christianity from its early days, it appears that all was just one big scam to fool and control everyone and only in recent times, the cracks are starting to appear, as the pillars of corruption and deceit are crumbling. Yet even with all this crumbling…..there are still billions of people putting their faith in Jesus Christ and the Bible, where is this minority that you spoke of in your documentary, the remaining few, so to speak? It appears in my view that more are turning towards christianity regardless of the paedophila and satanic ritual abuse practised by so many of its clergy. Don’t you find this more worrying?
To conclude I will say this. Although you have conveyed some very crucial points in your documentary, you failed to offer any solutions as an alternative. You simply said to follow Jesus….what else, though? What knowledge do we need to acquire? How should we conduct our lives in order to be more receptive? What is it that we need to do to break free from deception completely, once and for all? How do we obtain inner tranquility, peace and eternal life? All these are pertinent questions that any inquisitive truthseeker would ask, yet you failed to answer any of them. Surely you are not suggesting that all we need is to pray to Jesus? As I recall were you not the one who subtly criticised the likes of David Icke for over-simplifying certain matters? The notion that only Jesus is the answer and nothing else seems excessively simple to me.

Anyway, thank you for your time reading this e-mail and I hope to hear back from you soon. In the meantime much love and enlightenment to you:)

Elias

If you present a video of a child faking Israeli inflicted white-phospher burns, then you may have something important. These video links you’ve posted are just still conjecture.

The position that this doesnt go on amounts to a faith that I am not capable of. As I think the explanations given to try to explain the events in the videos I will link are outright ridiculous.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eww7BkkvFdo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3geiT77mlY4&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PxI_Nl-3tHA
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/47/MD_J6ytBy6M
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/39/7_TfeEkC9QQ
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/37/rY4zofCPLhA
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/46/HCdhCmnQtEA
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/40/E3Z4_11wLjw
http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=HonestReportingVideo#p/u/42/bWQcRd_Mg60

1st shot Middle Right of screen a couple of seconds after the 3:00min mark.
2nd shot same location a second or two after the 3:10 mark.
the narrator does say the scene may be real or not. So the damage is already done at that point and the mindset of the viewer is directed as desired – i.e. the jury has already been tainted by suggestions given. CONINTELPRO. The ADL and AIPAC apply these tactics to everything on the web. They’re unashamed. They admit they do it freely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6D8rGB_VVQc
Some men are brave enough to speak out in public about the notoriety of the Israelis http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDODrMkO7jI and the nature of hate. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysJFJ4K8oJ8
And an interview with Amy Goodman as to how politics really works. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZo-tDZ4S2g

Scapegoating the Palestinians? – when Israelis uses white phospher bomb contrary to the Geneva Conventions or the attack and murder on the Mavi Marmara in International water.

Holy crap, the list just keeps growing – organ harvesting, pornography trade …. guess who!

Im willing to hear you out, but I must say there is a ton more than bullets that would be need to be answered for in this video.

So what is the exact time signature I should be looking for?

Unbelievable.

Totally agreed on understanding the context of a book in the Bible – often times it’s the key to making sense of difficult passages (or even the whole book). I often think of James as an example; unless you understand why James wrote, and who he wrote to, you could well come away thinking he’s contradicting Paul on issues of faith, as Luther did. Same with Romans and Hebrews – context plays a significant role.

Also agreed on the NKJV. No version is perfect of course, but the NKJV seems pretty reliable while also removing the difficulties of olde English.

What I find helpful are two Bibles. A literal translation for technical accuracy (like the NKJV), and a modern paraphrase that easily conveys the emotions and clarity of thought that is often missed by strict word-for-word translations.

Also, the NKJV is great. It’s all I have, so I never realize other versions weren’t so thorough in its notation.

The Secrets Blogger
http://www.wikilightenment.com

1-Yes, if we are to accept this individuals exegesis of the passage. Here’s the passage:1-In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2-but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.
-are we not still in the last days? Is it not true that when we are saved that it is Christ who dwells in us that we might be conformed to His image. I don’t think that God has hit the mute button to those of us who are endowed with His spirit. Please read Acts 2:17. God has several ways He communicates to us. How he communicates with you may not be the same as He does with Doug. BTW, Doug isn’t the only one who makes this claim. K.P Yohannan of Gospel of Asia claims that God spoke to him very clearly when fasting and inquiring as to how much money he should accept from a man wanting to donate $1,000,000 to his organization. You can see this in a video called “Christ’s Call: Radical Obedience by KP Yohannan”-Youtube
2-Simply not true. Please watch his “Baptism of Fire! You need ALL THREE! ” video and see what he says about the 3 different forms of baptism. In fact, he makes it quite clear that baptism by water immersion is the most subordinate and it is the baptism of fire that really matters. I can reference other videos to disprove this claim.
3(or 4)-I would like to see where he has made this claim. Nevertheless, he has claimed to have witnessed this very thing take place. Please read 1 Corinthians 12:10. From what I’ve gathered from his videos, his association is with former witches who have been converted over to Christ, not with those who actively practice witchcraft.
5-Does this person know everyone who Doug calls “friend”? The truth is that Doug has provided shelter, clothing and food to thousands through Liberty Disaster Relief. If the NDE is in dispute, I would advise that he/she check out a video called Mickey Robinson’s Near Death Experience. Something about his physical appearance causes be to doubt that this was a mere DMT
trip

“His faith statement really has no Bible verses….In the videos I watched he never quoted a Bible verse he just spoke about experience”- it is because he carried out Matthew 19:21 that he lost his wife and kids. How many of us have that kind of faith?

First – Good work on the david icke debunking. I pray for him.

comments on worry and the bad news revealed by others:
In my opinion – Worry is not so much a sin (could be) as part of the process – faith does not come all at once (not for me anyway) – would i have gotten to faith without the veil being pulled back on the darkness??? – and that leads to worry – at least for me it did – trusting in God comes from faith and even our faith comes through God’s grace – so this can take time and worry is part of the process – to call it a sin can backfire – salvation comes through belief – when I believe that I am a sinner and I believe in the One God sent – that His death is sufficient to pay the penalty due me for my sins.

For some that happens quickly and dramatically – it did not happen that way for me and worry was part of what I went through – I focused on this sin-cursed world and knew that without Jesus Christ, we were all done for – but first I had to face the darkness – I think it is easy to be deluded about that and then it is easy to not appreciate what God has done for us through his Son – I finally got it(praise the Lord) – what a wonderful God we have and how much God loves us. I spent lots of time in worry and yes, God did use that for good – but I guess now I would focus on how much we are loved …even if we worry at times – And thank you God for the watchmen – they have a sacred duty and are desperately needed as Satan works overtime to complete his work on this earth. I believe that Dr. Scott Johnson is a watchman and is without fear in telling us of the plots and plans of nwo devils – May God help him in his ministry.

This from Kingdom Watcher:

However, if we are called to this watchman ministry, let us be patient in waiting for our placement. If we have a true gift, and manifest the fruit of the Spirit, our gift will make a place for us. Our goal must always be first to gain the endorsement of God, not men. If we want the endorsement of God we must be devoted to truth, integrity, and submission to His Spirit. If it takes others a while to acknowledge our calling, while we are waiting we can grow in grace and discernment (Rick Joyner – The Ministry of a Watchman).

Should you ever feel the need to return to the project though, might I suggest an abridged version? A more condensed, punchy form (say half the length) might reach more casual “truthers”. Don’t get me wrong, the full length one is excellent for Icke aficionados who are familiar with the details of his theories, but for many people I suspect some of the details are superfluous. You’re always in a battle for people’s attention, and 2+ hours is long by any standard. A light backing track would be good too, like the old rapitflybeats on your past videos.

That’s just some (hopefully) constructive criticism – take it or leave it as you see fit. In any case, great work already, and I hope it continues to reach people (like on the Icke forum ;)).

As for seminary material, I can’t say I know of much. Having said that much of what is freely available online is of seminary level (in many cases better), and has informed me quite well, particularity from teachers like Missler, Guzik, etc. All I could do is add to that list with teachers like Steve Gregg (TheNarrowPath), who has a complete library of in-depth verse by verse and topical lectures all for free, or David Pawson and his “Unlocking the Bible” videos (almost all uploaded to my Youtube account now). Other good courses are William Lane Craigs “Defenders” podcasts, Ken Boas lectures, and Dr Michael Browns various materials (especially his “Countering The Counter-Missionaries” lectures, all of which are on Youtube).

God bless.

I posted David Icke Debunked on the benotdeceived forum also. They already know you and love you there, so I was surprised to see it wasn’t posted yet. It’s there now. 🙂

Thank you for your personal audio response, and congrats on being able to pull this info together and get it out to the public. Icke’s well-intentioned, truth-seeking fans need to see this excellent film!

Thank Chris, for fashioning an effective tool in helping to destroy the blasphemous and outrageous myths spun by David Icke. You’re a true spiritual warrior and my prayer is that as a result of your debunking, many eyes will be opened, and many lives turned over to Christ.

David Icke had a successful career with the BBC as a top sports presenter. This would indicate me and many others that; he isn’t a snake oil salesman with the likes Jordan Maxwell. On a slightly different point: why he allowed himself to be associated with Maxwell [Camelot interview] bewilders me!

Some of my thoughts;

The first Point: Is he genuine in what he believes? Remembering he destroyed his television and political career because of his beliefs. I would at this stage believe that he is genuine in his own personal beliefs.

Second Point: ‘The Lizards’. I personally do not believe this, and as far as I am aware; he [Icke] has yet to show any sort of evidence of the existence of lizards other than AW or the Africa witch doctor’s testimony. Having watched the interview with AW (some time ago), in my personal opinion; she is not ‘believable’.

I didn’t watch the whole programme, because her body langue indicated and reminded me of someone who was trying to remember a story, they had been told! rather than someone speaking from ‘first hand’ experience. I ‘think’ cancelled the video clip after her sentence about the robe(s) colours. Confusing purple and red robes isn’t a mistake, someone who was actually there, would make.

This along with her body langue, indicated to me ‘she was lying’ and wasn’t a credible witness. As for the Crado character! I’ll leave that one open to interpretation.

Third Point: ‘The Global Elite’. David Icke is ‘spot on’. The global elite do exist and they do control us. What David however fails to mention or realise: If we copied the French revolutionaries and chopped off their heads! Someone else will come along and refill the gap. I just don’t believe the elite are non-human, in-fact, I would suggest their behaviour is ‘completely human’.

The masons do exist, and their behaviour and favouritism to their fellow brothers is a known fact, that I know for sure. They probably do worship devil figures, in my opinion (known or unknowingly) but that’s only speculation on my part. When David Icke discusses the masons in his lectures, he is in my opinion ‘100%. Anyone who exposes them deserves respect in relation to this.

Forth Point: ‘Reality form Icke’s prospective’. I must be a right-handed brain person because; I have always struggled to understand Icke on this subject! It’s hard to explain, but when you are watching his lectures, you begin to get an understanding or start to get a grasp of his theory, then about an hour later!! It doesn’t make any sense. He is rather good at trying to explain the impossible, with using the similarities of Wi-Fi, desk-top computer, etc.

I have to admit, until I seen your debunking documentary, I didn’t understand what Icke was talking about in relation to protons or wave colours, etc(My brain probably edited it out, as Icke would say). You’ve explained it better than he did. I have noticed in his newer lecture’s he doesn’t discuss his earlier opinions or maybe he’s just using different terminologies.

I have to admit; that when David Icke discusses the sheep mentality and how we restrict ourselves because we fear the opinion and reaction of others, and how we are expected to conform towards the prison mentality, is in personal opinion ‘liberating’. I always knew there was something wrong with this in sociality and Icke made me realise that. I agree with Icke! We should all act as individuals, and ‘be what we want to be’! I don’t believe this was directed at the bankers etc (if you understand my meaning).

So yes I agree some of David Icke’s opinions and I realise some of his evidence is at the least ‘wanting’ and his sources are ‘rather’ devious. However I believe the man is genuine in his beliefs, and he has a positive attitude towards encouraging individuals to be stronger. He is also highly articulated and interesting to watch.

I disagree with his opinions on Jesus ‘strongly’, not by belief alone! I know my history and your about ‘spot on’ in relation to Rome. I don’t really take much notice of his truth vibration but he does have interesting and truthful subjects to articulate. I would hazard a guess that; Icke is slightly ‘gullible’ and far too trusting with his contacts and sources. In other words; he believes anything that might match his own theories (if he’s actually sure what these are). Anyone who isn’t weak minded and has a little bit of common sense, should be able to tell the difference.

It was a good documentary and I ‘totally’ agree with your earlier Jordan Maxwell one (he has to be exposed). I just feel the documentary could have been slightly more balanced, as in its present form, it seem like an attempt to completely discredit him, which could back fire and actually strengthen his supporters warped opinions and ‘ALL’ his ideas. I just don’t believe Icke is another Jordan Maxwell, in my opinion; he’s either far too gullible or he’s mentally ill, after watching your documentary! I’ve come to the conclusion ‘he’s a bit of both’.

PS this is only my general opinion and isn’t base on any research.

It’s on Icke’s forum hehe – that’s great!