NTR – Who is the Woman that Rides the Beast?


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I talk about a theory about of who the woman who rides the beast in Revelation 17,18 is. As well as the associated information, “the seven kings”, “the seven mountains” etc.


27 Comments

  1. Neil James

    I listened to the whole thing and you bring up a fresh outlook and begin shedding new light on many difficult passages that I think need to be delved into even deeper. I definitely support the movie idea! It’s super important and I feel like the understanding of prophecy needs to be pursued with wisdom more now than ever as God continues to open our eyes to the depth and accuracy provided us of what is to come. I look forward to hearing from you at the politics of religion conference!

  2. The future one world religious church, the melting pot, the second Roman empire.

  3. Ok Brother,
    Just listened to the program. You did a good job on this. Very thought provoking.

    Just let me throw a few thoughts out there at you:

    1) “So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman” Rev. 17:3

    “And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the LAND OF SHINAR: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.” Zechariah 5:7-11

    2) Revelation 17:1, “The great whore that sitteth upon MANY peoples

    Does Jerusalem sit upon MANY peoples??

    3) “And upon her forehead was a name written,
    MYSTERY
    BABYLON THE GREAT
    THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH

    Was Jerusalem the MOTHER of harlots? Was or Is Jerusalem the MOTHER of Abominations of the Earth?

    4) Revelation 17:18, “And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which REIGNETH OVER the kings of the earth.”

    When or is Jerusalem REIGNING OVER the Kings of the Earth?

    Ok, let me know your thoughts,

    Grace be to you and peace, from God: our Father, and The LORD Jesus Christ.

    In The LORD Jesus Christ,
    The Lion and Lamb Ministry

    Pastor David Picos

  4. David.
    In the audio I tried to make clear the points you raised, namely that the idea of Jerusalem ruling over many people and nations tongues etc. It is a prophecy about the Antichrist’s kingdom which will set up its HQ in Jerusalem according to Daniel 11:45 and 2 Thess 2:3-4 This would make no sense if we limit our interpretation to only things that have already happened (cities that have previously had degrees of world power), Jerusalem is prophesied to be a future world capital, it is not a current one.

    The “harlotry” is always defined as spiritual harlotry all throughout the bible, that is, worshiping false gods, bringing offerings to them etc. The harlotry is spiritual harlotry and Worshipping Satan as The God of Gods is the biggest and worst harlotry that has ever been done in history. Not to mention that this harlotry will be extended to the entire world. And those that dont worship the Antichrist will be killed. That martyrdom exceeding anything that has ever existed in history as well, which according to Daniel, Matthew, and John has its epicenter in Judea after the abomination of Desolation, and it is in that sense that Jerusalem will be drunk with the blood of the martyrs including the two witnesses.

    Mat 23:37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, the city that kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to it! How often would I have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her brood under her wings, and you would not!

  5. The god of fortresses would be Jupiter Capitolinus – who’s worship is associated with Apollo when doing the whole Greco-Roman deity branching thing. This one is easy to research, but Jupiter has several facades throughout classic lore, Capitolinus is his ‘God of Fortresses’ incarnation. Pairs with Minvera and Daphne. As per the city of the woman, never heard Jerusalem mentioned before, have heard London was mentioned, as well as New York. However, using the repeating theme and parallelism techniques often associated with good Biblical prophecy research, makes sense.

    Alot of people who got into this study seriously ditched the idea of Rome, but it’s understandable why people think that way.

  6. Chris,

    I am not disputing the “harlotry”. I am disputing that Jerusalem is the MOTHER of Harlots, and the MOTHER of Abominations on the Earth.

    “BABYLON THE GREAT,” the MOTHER of the harlots and the MOTHER of abominations of the earth which is written on the woman’s forehead, was a secret sign or symbol. It does not, of course, mean that this is an actual woman, so let’s get that out of the way. The explanation of what the woman represented is not given until the very last verse of the chapter, so until then the meaning of the name was a secret. Then at the end of the chapter it is revealed that it referred to “that great city” (Revelation 17:18). The word Mystery here or musterion means simply a secret.

    So here, in Revelation 17:5-6, the woman’s name is a secret sign and means something deeper than the name itself could convey. So, in Revelation 17:18 we see that the name was the name, not of a woman, but of a city, “that great city”. And I believe that city is Babylon. Why? Stay with me on this. THIS Babylon, is not signified merely by the material city itself, BUT by the ENORMOUS SYSTEM of idolatry connected with it. That is why the explanation to the secret sign name follows, and that is “the MOTHER of harlots and the MOTHER of abominations of the earth.”

    Now, Chris, this is not merely of Babylon, as a city, but “of the WHOLE earth”, that is the MOTHER, or originator, the fountain-head of ALL the systems of idolatry which have since covered “the earth” from that one great source. Jerusalem, Rome, London, even Washington, are only a part. This here is the secret of “the mystery of iniquity” referred to in 2 Thessalonians 2:7. It was Babylon that was the fountain-head of ALL idolatry.

    I refer you again to Zechariah, “And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a WOMAN that sitteth in the midst of the ephah. And he said, THIS IS WICKEDNESS. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof. Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven. Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah? And he said unto me, To build it an house in the LAND OF SHINAR: and it shall be ESTABLISHED, and set there upon her own base.” Zechariah 5:7-11

    So back to Revelation 17, we have here two things, ONE is the reality of the city itself, which is that “great city,” which will be seen by those not yet initiated into Satanic worship; and TWO, the woman, which is the “secret sign” of what that means. The image of the woman is like the Stage Curtain. However, those that HAVE been initiated into the worship of Satan are those who will be allowed behind the curtain, in order to learn “the depths of Satan”. Now, the uninitiated will see only the stage curtain, which is the wonderful city. Proverbs 9:13-18, gives a nice view of this where both are shown.

    Ok, next point, IDOLATRY was not a sin into which people gradually sunk, but it was the creation, by Satan, of a huge compliocated system of methods, which he intended to lead to his own worship. So how did it get perfected, where is it’s MOTHER?

    It was NIMROD that was used as the founder of this scheme of Satan. and…wait for it…BABYLON was his city (Genesis 10:10). Now consider this…wouldn’t Cain’s city, before the flood, be of the same type to the people of his day? And Cain’s city comes to the same end as Babylon does afterwards (Genesis 4:17). Each of these cities would be the capital of their respective idolatrous systems.

    Now look here, the words “Cain went out from the presence of the Lord” are very significant. So is the name of Cain’s city. He called it Enoch, which actually means INITIATED (coming from the root: chahnak, meaning to initiate or dedicate). The corruption of the human race spoken of in Genesis 6 led to abnormals, which would account for the half-human, or super-human beings, which became the Nephilim, the Rephaim, and the Anakim of Scripture, (the Titans of Greek Mythology). It would also account for the worship of Ishtar, Isis, Ashtaroth, and all the abominations of Spiritual Harlotry.

    Ok, so from ALL this we can see how “that great city,” BABYLON, founded by Nimrod, was the SOURCE or the MOTHER of all idolatry.

    This CANNOT be said of Egypt, Rome, Jerusalem, London, etc. The idolatry being carried out in Jerusalem or Rome are only parts of the system; part of the polluted streams from that SOURCE, BABYLON. It is just not possible that one of the many streams can be the source of all the streams. So, Chris, I have to ask you. Wasn’t there idolatry before Jerusalem, before Rome, before Athens?

    So you have to ask yourself, where did the worship of Moloch, and Remphan, and Chium, come from? They had to ORIGINATE, and be MOTHERED somewhere BEFORE they were practiced in the wilderness (Acts 7:43. Amos 5:25-26). And then consider the worship of Ashtoreth, the abomination of the Zidonians, and Chemosh, the abomination of the Moabites, and Milcom, the abomination of the children of Ammon, all of which were introduced by Solomon (1 Kings 11:5, 2 Kings 23:11), but certainly had existed BEFORE Solomon? Was JERUSALEM the MOTHER of these?

    So what have we learned here? We have learned that the descriptions seen in these verses goes back to the ORIGIN, the MOTHER of ALL the abominations of heathen idolatry. Jerusalem’s place in history makes this an absolute impossibility. It would be just as ridiculous to say that the Zionist movement of the last century and today was the SOURCE or the MOTHER of the Nation of Israel!

    Now, let’s take a look at something further…the Babylon of Nebuchadnezzar’s day, is NOT the Babylon being referenced in Revelation 17! And for the same reason that it is NOT Jerusalem, Egypt, Rome, etc. THESE cities do NOT date back far enough. We must go back further, and we do indeed find the TRUE Source or MOTHER in Genesis 10:8-10 and Genesis 11:9. There we find the MOTHER of harlots in the land of Shinar. (See the Zechariah reference again).

    Under Nimrod the work in the spirit of Antichrist began. Nimrod’s object was to build a city, and make for HIS People a name, so that they might not be scattered. BABYLON was founded in rebellion against God.

    Nimrod was “a mighty one on the earth” (Genesis 10:8). He called his city Bab-El. Some interpretors take this to mean the court or gate of God; because Nimrod, like his FUTURE, antitype, would phonely exalt himself (2 Thessalonians 2:4).

    So there you have it!

    Grace be to you and peace, from God: our Father, and The LORD Jesus Christ.

    In The LORD Jesus Christ,
    The Lion and Lamb Ministry

    Pastor David Picos

  7. I think there is a lot to consider in your presentation Chris, but I suppose I am still trying to fully understand the connection between the phrase “great city” in Rev. 11, and what we read in chapters 17, 18…

    Is it simply the words “great city”? I listened to that part a couple times, but wasn’t sure how exactly you made the connection…

    I do also think people need to understand that, as you said, what we would be talking about here is total global system here, merely centered in Jerusalem (as I think I understand what you’re outlining), and so when read all those verses which talk about how the merchants and seafareres stand far off because no one buys their cargoes anymore, we are actually reading about a total worldwide economic collapse. Those verses would not make a great deal of sense if they were talking strictly about the confines of the physical city itself, as opposed to an entire global system…

  8. Hey Chris,

    Maybe I wasn’t paying attention well, but I am confused about something here

    Matthew 24 says the following: 15“So when you see standing in the holy place ‘the abomination that causes desolation,’b spoken of through the prophet Daniel—let the reader understand— 16then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains.

    Then Rev. says this: 13When the dragon saw that he had been hurled to the earth, he pursued the woman who had given birth to the male child.

    I get that the Abomination of Desolation is the Anti-Christ, who is also the beast that the harlot sits on. I also understand that the Dragon is Satan, as he is identified in Revelation.

    So, who is it that peruses Israel? Is it the Anti-Christ or Satan?

  9. Would the Preterist view be worth mentioning here? That of the harlot being Jerusalem and the Beast being Rome, circa 70AD? Would seem to fit a lot of the salient points in any case; the Jews were the chief enemies of the gospel initially, persecuting and shedding the blood of early Christians (the saints), with Rome aiding her in that persecution at least for a while – the woman rode the beast. Then Rome turned on Israel when she revolted, totally crushing the entire nation in one of the most horrific wars the ancient world has ever seen. In the case of the city of Jerusalem itself, it was literally burnt with fire, with nearly a million people put to the sword, fulfilling Jesus’ predictions of distress and vengeance in the Olivet discourse (and all within “this generation”, too).

    As Chris highlights here, it’s not without scriptural precedent that Israel is called a harlot, and Rome was always known as the city on seven hills.

    I’m not certain on anything to do with prophecy nowadays, having rejected a lot of dispensationalist teaching, but purely for balance I thought the preterist view would be worth bringing up for those who haven’t heard it. Seems to be at least a possibility to me.

  10. David,
    I understand your concerns as they were my exact concerns a few days ago. I used to hold the same view as you do (from what I can tell) on this issue.

    OK, so you say:

    “I am not disputing the “harlotry”. I am disputing that Jerusalem is the MOTHER of Harlots, and the MOTHER of Abominations on the Earth.”

    I think the problem is that you (and me formerly) assumed that Mother of Harlots had to mean the mother of all false religion from the beginning of time, I think that if you review these two chapters you will find that that is a belief based entirely on the word “Mother.” There is nothing else that would make a person reject the notion that these chapters are talking about a particular one time future harlotry (with the beast) that results in a world government / religion / and persecution.

    There is absolutely nothing to suggest that this woman has to be the source of all idolatry etc. In fact I would suggest that the text refutes such a notion. For instance the woman is eventually turned on and destroyed by the ten kings who are under the control of the beast:

    Rev 17:16 And the ten horns that you saw, they and the beast will hate the prostitute. They will make her desolate and naked, and devour her flesh and burn her up with fire,

    Now in this case we must believe that satan is clearly divided against satan, something Jesus scoffed at.
    If anything fits the description of something that is the source of all false systems it is the very beast she is riding, she herself seems to be expendable.
    and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.

    I would suggest that the idea of being a “Mother” of something is explained in this very same context by the prophet Hosea.

    Hos 1:11 Then shall the children of Judah and the children of Israel be gathered together, and appoint themselves one head, and they shall come up out of the land: for great shall be the day of Jezreel.
    Hos 2:1 (next verse after chapter break) Say ye unto your brethren, Ammi; and to your sisters, Ruhamah.
    Hos 2:2 Plead with your mother, plead: for she is not my wife, neither am I her husband: let her therefore put away her whoredoms out of her sight, and her adulteries from between her breasts;
    Hos 2:3 Lest I strip her naked, and set her as in the day that she was born, and make her as a wilderness, and set her like a dry land, and slay her with thirst.

    Hsa 4:5 Therefore shalt thou fall in the day, and the prophet also shall fall with thee in the night, and I will destroy thy mother.

    Hsa 10:14 Therefore shall a tumult arise among thy people, and all thy fortresses shall be spoiled, as Shalman spoiled Betharbel in the day of battle: the mother was dashed in pieces upon [her] children.

    The idea is that Jerusalem is the mother of harlots, that is people that commit the worship of a false God, in this case Satan himself.
    The concept of Jerusalem being a mother seems to be well used, Paul in the NT says:

    Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

    As I said I used to think this passage about the woman meant that I had to look for something that was the source of all evil in the history of the world, but I dont think the word “mother” necessitates that. Everything that is described is a perfect match with all the other scriptures, if it is referring to a future event, a future kingdom, a future persecution.

    In regard to the Zec quote. I think that quote agrees far more with my position than it does yours. If you know much about E-sword you can see what I mean by clicking here
    http://conspiracyclothes.com/nowheretorun/email/New%20folder/Untitled-1%20copy.jpg

  11. Daciple

    Chris,

    I just finished listening to this in full and would like to say 2 things, one Thank you for the research you have put into this thus far. I have always on my own studies always felt that power would move from Rome to Jerusalem and I am NOT one to pigeon hole myself into any certain Eschatology cuz I can literally understand the Biblical Basis of all of them save Full preterism. This study you have brought to light reinforces and articulates the beliefs and what I have felt the Holy Spirit was already moving in me to come to believe. The way you connected the Spices Gold Silver ect to all Rebuild the Temple rang true as soon as you spoke it, almost shockingly so. Also the simple Exegesis of the Great City, I cant believe this has been so over looked, its like blatant but I never put it together!!!

    Second thing Id like to say is please do a movie I would love to understand and have a more detailed and better laid out version of all that you just went over so I can easily share this concept with others and put it on the sites I visit. At the end you said you might not do the movie please do I think many would whether they agree or not do well to learn the info you have laid out here.

    If you dont have the time or choose not to I understand, if that is the case could you please provide me with other sources and those who also are researching this Ideology so I can learn more in depth about it?

    Thanks, keep up the wonderful work and may YHWH continue to bless you in your walk with Him!!!

    -Daciple

  12. Hi Guys
    Thinking that all the events described in the book of the revelation are future events leads to a lot of confusion. A great deal of it has already happened. Assuming that spiritual events are physical events will also create confusion. Not every event in revelation was a physical event that could be observed with physical eyes. We should keep in mind that John was describing a vision that he had to the best of his abilities. He used terms that a reader in his time would understand clearly, but we in modern times do not.

    Your’s in Christ
    Billy

  13. Have you considered that the Book of Revelation may be heresy?

    http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

  14. Catherine

    Hi Chris,
    I thank you and encourage you in your continued effort to understand the Word of God more fully. I would appreciate an expanded effort in film if you feel God is leading you to it. I pray for your ministry regularly and am sure that God is bringing many to your work to be saved. God bless you and your family.
    Your sister in Christ,
    Catherine

  15. Billy, there is no way that most of the events described in Revelation already happened.

    But also, if you are going to dismiss the bulk of Revelation as merely “spiritual events” that John was feebly trying to describe, then essentially such a perspective would defeat the whole purpose of John having the vision, and writing it down, in the first place.

    Jesus is coming back. This is not merely a “spiritual event”, it will be very physical, and visible to the entire world. Similarly, the events which precede His return will be very real, very physical, even if they are indeed inseperably connected to realities in the spiritual realm…

  16. Anthony

    Just a thought. Maybe some weird connections here but The Club Of Rome, in which the EU is modeled by, segregated the world into 10 sections. 10 horns? Years ago I saw where TPTB wanted to divide the world into 4 sections and then eventually one. The Middle east was the one holding it up, not that the NAU is yet formed, but that would be pretty easy unless it takes off Reality Shows and sports from the TV. When all is fallen they will seek a ruler, so will we. Problem, Reaction, Solution. We’re seeing that now in the Middle East. If DNA can be had while we’re there from Nimrod then he that was is and is to come. Check out G.R.I.N. Technology or any other DNA technology. If Nimrod can be remade then so could others from the Days of Noah, which could explain men’s hearts failing them from fear. I know, it sounds like a great movie line.

  17. Fascinating! I’d LOVE to see the movie of this and will continue to pray re: direction for you in this and God’s will. One question I do have, is the lack of “blue” cloth, a major colour for the creation of the tabernacle, tent, priestly robes, threads in the corners of the garments of the men, etc… I just find the phraseology extremely interesting making the “blue” even MORE ominously missing.

  18. Chris, as usual, you have again brought out some interesting scriptural observations regarding the prophecies surrounding end-time events. I truly do admire your passion for studying the Word and sharing what you’ve learned with other believers. Your reasoning skills and matter-of-fact approach when examing the scriptures is really refreshing. Thanks for all of the hard work you have done and continue to do in Christ’s service.

    However, after listening to your recent study, I would like to share an observation I’ve made in my scriptural studies regarding the Woman of Revelation 17:

    You’ve surmised that the epicenter of the Antichrist’s rule will be the actual, physical city of Jerusalem. Not only is it scriptural… but it’s also logical. What better place for the False-Christ to set up his rulership, in order to convince the world that he is in fact the True-Christ, than Jerusalem where our Lord was crucified? However, I think too much emphasis is put on trying to define the Woman literally and to confine her to a geographical location. The Woman, the great city that sits upon the many waters and is the mother of all the abominations of the earth is no more a physical city than she is a physical woman… she embodies the entire deceived Apostate World. The root meaning of the greek word Babylon is confusion. The Woman represents the ultimate confusion in the last days. Moreover, we know from Revelation 11 that the Two Witnesses will be killed in the physical city of Jerusalem where Christ was crucified. But the Holy Spirit wants us to see what that great city represents in a spiritual sense; the Woman represents spiritual depravity (Sodom) and spiritual captivity (Egypt). Though all eyes will be focused on the physical city of Jerusalem, it is that spiritual city of depravity and captivity that will envelop the entire Apostate world.

  19. I should, perhaps, have highlighted the major question posed (amongst others), in the article I linked to above, which is “would Jesus kill little children because their parents sinned?”

    http://www.christian-community.org/library/revelheresy.html

  20. Harry,
    In regard to Revelation being a heresy.
    This is the commentary from Clark on the verse in question.

    Rev 2:23
    “And I will kill her children with death – “That is, I will certainly destroy her offspring and memory, and thereby ruin her designs. Jezebel’s two sons, being both kings were both slain; and after that, all the seventy sons of Ahab; (2Ki_10:1); in all which the hand of God was very visible. In the same manner God predicts the destruction of the heretics and heresies referred to; see Rev_2:16. It should seem by the expression, I am he which searcheth the reins and the hearts, that these heretics lurked about, and sowed their pernicious doctrines secretly. But our Savior tells them that it was in vain, for he had power to bring their deeds to light, having that Divine power of searching into the Evilly and affections of men; and hereby he would show both them and us that he is, according to his title, The Son of God; and hath such eyes to pry into their actions, that, like a fire, they will search into every thing, and burn up the chaff which cannot stand his trial; so that the depths of Satan, mentioned in the next verse, to which this alludes, (Christ assuming here this title purposely) shall avail nothing to those who think by their secret craft to undermine the Christian religion; he will not only bring to light, but baffle all their evil intentions. See Rev_17:9.”

    I suppose you would have to suggest that 2 kings is also heresy, as God did the same thing to Jezebel’ s children there.

  21. D thanks for responding. I disagree that some of the events in Revelation being non physical would defeat the purpose of the vision. Those spiritual events affect our salvation. I don’t doubt for a minute that Jesus will physically come back but His kingdom exists now. The end of the age was the end of the jewish age in AD 70. The new Jerusalem is the church. Believers rule with Christ right now. That’s why we can call on the authority of His name to kick demons to the curb. It’s a spiritual kingdom Jesus said so in John 18:36. I agree that Jesus is physically coming back but I don’t think the series of events will be exactly what people are expecting. I think there are physical events in Revelation that are yet to come but some of it has already happened. I can’t prove that I am correct in this and it wont hurt my feelings if I turn out to be wrong, but it fits the scripture better than any other scenario iv looked at so far.

    Your’s in Christ
    Billy

  22. Chris, I’m thinking Nimrod would be the first type of the AntiChrist.

  23. Hi Chris, I know this post is “old” now, but I’m commenting again because I keep thinking about a point you made in one of your earlier comments to David…

    You said, “Now in this case we must believe that satan is clearly divided against satan, something Jesus scoffed at.
    If anything fits the description of something that is the source of all false systems it is the very beast she is riding, she herself seems to be expendable.
    and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.

    I have been thinking about this isse of “Satan cannot be divided against Satan” lately, especially as I have been watching this excellent video series called “Know your Enemy” by the “Fuel Project” (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HDDGl79x4Pc&feature=related)…

    As the series progresses through the various historical stages of the Babylonian “Mystery religions”, one thing that I do not believe can be denied is that time and time again, we actually do see Satan casting aside various occult systems, abandoning certain false religions, having new pagan empires overthrow old ones, etc., whenever it suits his purposes… We must remember that Satan really cares nothing about individual human beings, or even droves of us. Humans are regarded as being completely expendable in his overall agenda. He thinks nothing of throwing out even entire occult systems “under the bus” if he deems it necessary. He doesn’t care in the slightest if the names of false demon-”gods” are changed a hundred times over, because in the end the names don’t matter. Yes, Satan wants to be worshipped, but again since He is not God and does not have a heart like God’s, we must conclude he ultimately does not even desire the same kind of “true worship” from humankind. No amount of satanic worship will ever satisfy him, and in the end he will always end up despising even those who devote their entire selves to serving him…

    I feel quite drawn to the conclusion that when Jesus made His statement about “Satan cannot be divided against Satan”, we must remember that He was talking about the casting OUT of an evil spirit… This is definitely something we would never see Satan, or the demonic host do. The last thing they are going to do is anything that would reveal who they really are, and what they are really striving to accomplish (i.e. deceiving people in order that we might share their fate in hell…) The phrase “Satan cannot be divided against Satan” essentially means that everything the devil does always promotes further deception, because that’s his whole game…

    As I think about it, it makes perfect sense that Satan, the “Beast”, would eventually turn on his “Bride of Satan”, his “church”, the Whore, which he has cultivated since the beginning of history. After all, Satan is the total opposite of God. God loves His bride and died for her, Satan despises his whore, and has only ever seen her as a means to his own self-absorbed ends… At the end of the day, Lucifer only loves himself…

    Also, much of your new position seems to hinge on the idea you outlined when you said, “and we can infer that she once had a right relationship with God by verses like Rev 18:7 and others which certainly excludes Babylon.

    But the more I think about this, the more I fear that such an inferance is not terribly convincing. I don’t see anything in Rev. 18:7 that would indicate that when she says, “I sit as a Queen, I will never mourn”, that she believes so because of any connection to the One True God…

    Overall though, I am really grateful for these two posts about this topic, because it has prompted me to think about all this on a level that I had never done before. I greatly appreciate your heart for the full counsel of scripture, and that you take seriously what it says about the Last Days…

    Much peace to you friend…

  24. Dan Domingo

    The views here are disturbing seeing as how they line up with catholic lies to cover themselves from being discovered as the whore of revelation…

    I smell jesuits…

  25. The apostle Peter identifies Rome as Babylon-

    1 Peter 5:13
    The church that is at Babylon, elected together with you, saluteth you; and so doth Marcus my son.

    This is the same Peter whom the Roman Catholic Church claims is the first Pope.

    Was Peter even buried in Rome, as is claimed?

    http://www.aloha.net/~mikesch/peters-jerusalem-tomb.htm

  26. YOU KNOW WHO ELSE TEACHES REVELATION 17 SPEAKS OF JERUSALEM?

    COUNTER-REFORMATION JESUITS TEACH REV. 17 IS ON JERUSALEM TO POINT THE FINGERS AWAY FROM THEMSELVES!

    http://marcoponce.com/2011/04/islamic-catholic-eschatology/

    DON’T FALL FOR IT. IT’S THE ROMAN CATHOLIC CHURCH.

    http://thewhoreofrevelation.com

  27. Grant T. S.

    Chris, firstly I’d like to say, I’m new to NTR & I feel is the closest site I’ve found that is humble enough to continue to seek the truth. Thank you for your dedication.
    Regarding:”Who is the Woman that Rides the Beast?” March 22 2011. A gentleman named Pastor David Picos in the comments section made several observations. I don’t know if you have covered his questions at another date or had parallel thoughts to my thoughts on the subjects you and he covers.
    David in his first comment said, “Does Jerusalem sit upon MANY peoples??” I say an emphatic yes. The Synagogue of Satan who say they are Jews and are not, comprising especially the elite Jews are embedded in all nations, especially the West and have massive global influence. The Jews run practically every corrupt government and major institution of deception in the entire West. With that reality, Jerusalem does sit on many waters and people, big time! The majority of Christendom thinks the current contrived nation of Israel is the genuine thing. What a chilling deception by Satan to fool his Zionist friends to look at Catholicism as the boogie man. Catholicism is major diversion and tool to make us look away from the ‘innocent’ apostate nation of Israel. No doubt Catholicism has and is involved in many occultish & evil practices and killed many Believers down through the ages, but not near as many as Jewish governed USSR did. Look it up.
    I know that you are aware that when the Jews came back from Babylon, they brought with them the vile Talmud that is the trademark of pretty much everything deceptive in the world today. David further said: “I am not disputing the “harlotry”. I am disputing that Jerusalem is the MOTHER of Harlots, and the MOTHER of Abominations on the Earth.” Almost everything vile after the Flood originated in Babylon where the spirit & lifestyle of the Talmud existed. The book form of the Talmud wasn’t put together until much later.
    So from this context, Jerusalem & the Jews spiritually speaking IS the mother of harlots. The Jews took on the harlotry nature of the Talmud and spread its filth to the world in the form of deceiving governments, trade, wars, Hollywood, porn etc., it permeates every facet of our society. From this context it too ‘sits on many waters’ quite dramatically. This doesn’t mean that sinners be them Jews or Christians are lost, far from it!! God’s grace is outrageous.

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